"St Georges Gazette"

[quadrangle]

I am trying to work out the date when  two letters were sent from the Western Front by my father.

In one of them, he refers to  playing two matches for his battalion the 9th (Service) Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers.

Quote " I played two matches for our Battalion , we lost one and won one, we beat "D" company of our Battalion 7-2

and I had the pleasure of scoring three goals. The machine gun corps beat us 2-1 with the other match."

Although I have the War diaries and the "Historical records of the 9th Battalion" (C.H.Cooke M.C.) I have drawn a blank.

Both often give details of soccer matches , but not these games.

  I understand that these were often reported in the Gazette.

If there is someone out there in possession of war time issues , I would appreciate any help.

I am also available to look up details from the sources mentioned , the war diaries has a lot of information about

Ordinary ranks and up to about Dec 1917 all casualties were listed.

Regards

[Dragoon]

Hello,

The Royal Northumberland Fusiliers museum shop has this book, might help: The Fifth in the Great War
A reprint of the history of the 1st and 2nd Battalions, Northumberland Fusiliers in the First World War first published in 1938. The history was originally a monthly supplement to the St. George’s Gazette but has since been compiled into this history. Paperback - 310 pages.
Brigadier H R Sandilands
£20.00

I know he was in the 9th Bn, but it may shed some light,

 

Regards

 

Chris

[quadrangle]

Thanks Chris

  I will probably add this to my collection.

Not sure when  he moved from 4th NF to 22nd Tyneside Scottish to 9th Bn.

Cheers
tony

 

[robigunner88]

Hello Tony,

 

The St. George's Gazette up to September 1916 had a 'Battalion Notes' section, which the 9th (Service) Battalion regularly contributed to. The 'notes' are a fascinating read - whether the Regiment's Battalions were abroad or at home up to that period. Sadly as the editor records in  the 'Retrospect, 1917' column (Volume. XXXV. 1917, 31st December 1917, pg. 178):

 

"The blue pencil of the censor has knocked the stuffing out of the Battalion notes so that the hearts of many Battalion correspondents have been (apparently)! broken and they correspond no more". 

 

Their exclusion - according to the editor - hit the journal hard, with much interest and many subscriptions ceasing. There was also the prospect of NCO's and ORs possibly being charged 3d or 4d by 1919 to cover the cost in production, which was by 1917 5d a copy (NCO's and ORs had been paying 2d, resulting in the journal relying heavily upon the officer class to cover production costs).  

 

I don't think the 'Battalion Notes' resumed again until November 1918; in their place were 'Regimental Notes' which don't give too much away, although I am sure they can be deciphered by someone more knowledgeable on the Regiment than myself. 

 

Therefore, depending on when your father was transferred to the 9th Battalion, will determine whether the St. George's Gazette will offer you any insight into when the match was played. As you have mentioned, your father had moved between the 4th, 22nd, and then onto the 9th Battalion, which too me, suggests it would have taken place late on in the war when the 'notes' section had been censored. 

 

Regards,

 

Jamie

 

 

[quadrangle]

Thanks Jamie

   I have worked out that he would have been transferred to the 9th in about Aug 1917.

The match he played may have just squeezed in before the censorship.

Trouble is I don't know if the battalion he played for was the 9th or the 22nd.

It  would have been a good investment at 2d a copy!!

Probably worth a small fortune now? if you can get any.

I do know he played goalkeeper for Scotswood after the war in the victory league.

Did you see the St Georges Gazette at Newcastle Library?

Perhaps someone can elaborate on the censorship?

Regards

Tony

[Graham Stewart]

Censorship effected everything being published at that time, even the daily newspapers, which went from being a wealth of information on events as they occurred during the War to very little at all - other than what they were told to print. Local casualty lists virtually disappear and St.Georges Gazettes used to do them by Battalion, but these were replaced by mass Lists, which afer the Somme were sometimes months out of date.

 

Although I'm no expert, I believe these Lists, as well as publications in general, were being annalised by enemy agents and the 'gathered' information being passed back to Germany - however someone more knowledgeable on the subject may be able to confirm or deny my assessment.

 

P.S. - Newcastle Library used to have a full set of SGG's, as did the Fusiliers Museum, my own collection being the largest outside of these two facilities - requiring only four to complete a full run.

Edited 16 October , 2016 by Graham Stewart

[ss002d6252]

Newcastle Lit & Phil library has a small run - their catalogue states vol 29-37 - issues covering 1911-1919.

Craig

[seaJane]

Also some issues in the British Library, Imperial War Museum and Durham University Library, not that that's much use to you in Perth, Australia...

[robigunner88]

I spent a good couple of hours looking for volumes online the other day and came across the years:

1907

1909-1920

 

These are all available for free public viewing in the U.S.  - For those outside the U.S., there are, as I am sure you know, ways of bypassing the restrictions . 

Unfortunately, unless in possession of a U.S. university log-in, the volumes cannot be downloaded as a book. Instead, as I have had to do, it is possible to download a page at a time - time consuming I know!

 

There are one or two pages missing in the 1917, and 1918 volumes, and larger sections in the 1919 and 1920 volumes. However, as far as I could tell, 1913-1916 are complete. I have yet to download 1907 and 1909-12, and so cannot reveal if all the pages are included.

 

Jamie

[quadrangle]

5 hours ago, seaJane said:

Also some issues in the British Library, Imperial War Museum and Durham University Library, not that that's much use to you in Perth, Australia...

 Perth is good for a lot of things, but not research, although things are getting better.I have just received a library card from

the State Library of WA which allows me to access "the times archives" and a lot of other interesting material on line.

 

Thanks Jamie

  I have tried several times to obtain a "friends" log in with Uni of Michigan , they said they would send

me a link by email, but never have. Also there was a download site that look very suspicious , I was tempted to

ignore the on screen warning advice , but resisted.

  So how do I get there Jamie? one page at a time is better than nothing.

Cheers

Tony

3 hours ago, robigunner88 said:

I spent a good couple of hours looking for volumes online the other day and came across the years:

1907

1909-1920

 

These are all available for free public viewing in the U.S.  - For those outside the U.S., there are, as I am sure you know, ways of bypassing the restrictions . 

Unfortunately, unless in possession of a U.S. university log-in, the volumes cannot be downloaded as a book. Instead, as I have had to do, it is possible to download a page at a time - time consuming I know!

 

There are one or two pages missing in the 1917, and 1918 volumes, and larger sections in the 1919 and 1920 volumes. However, as far as I could tell, 1913-1916 are complete. I have yet to download 1907 and 1909-12, and so cannot reveal if all the pages are included.

 

Jamie

 

[robigunner88]

Tony,

 

You're on the right path...

The University of Michigan is the website I have downloaded them from. I changed my IP to the U.S., and it has given me access to them. 

 

Jamie

[quadrangle]

On 10/17/2016 at 05:36, robigunner88 said:

Tony,

 

You're on the right path...

The University of Michigan is the website I have downloaded them from. I changed my IP to the U.S., and it has given me access to them. 

 

Jamie

Thanks for the tip Jamie.

  I did not find the "page at a time" particularly slow , and the bonus is the search facility which works

quite well. I tested it with a C.S.M who was wounded in 1983, but it did not find him, although it did find his

D.C.M award. 

Regards

Tony

 

 

[mellis]

Copies of St Georges Gazette to order online

 

I am not sure if this will be of interest to anyone but if you to the website Abebooks and under search add St George's Gazette it will show a location in India which will print off St George's Gazette by year.

I have used them and it work fine. The copy of 1915 that I got was not perfect, (in comparison to the version I saw in the British Library), but adequate for what I needed it for..

 

Regards

Michael Ellis