The Balkans

[angelasmith66]

Hi, I hope you will pardon my ignorance with this post. I have checked the medal card for a relative and discovered he was sent to the Balkans in 1915. Does anyone know what action was happening there at that time? Thanks

[curranl]

Hi Angela/Kate,

If the medal card says 2b Balkans, your man went to Gallipoli, rather than Salonika. Can you tell us exactly what it says and we can give you a better idea? As Kate says, if you can identify his battalion we can give you a lot more information.

Regards,

Liam.

[steve fuller]

Hi Angela

... and as they both said, if you can ID the Battalion & it was 2b Balkans we can add a fair bit of meat to it for you. Gallipoli isnt as well covered as The Western Front but we've got a few decent books & the like between us & enugh of us have an interest in that Theatre to help out.

Steve

[angelasmith66]

Thanks for the replies. The medal card says 2B Balkans. His date of entry was 2nd July 1915. He served with the Highland Light Infantry.

[steve fuller]

Westlakes 'British Regiments In Gallipoli has 3 sides of print on the Highland LI in Gallipoli. Arrived 1st july 1915 31 Officers & 967 other ranks - 18 officers & 686 OR's by the end of the 1st month; left Gallipoli 8th January 1916. Possibly amongst the last units to be evacuated from Gallipoli?

A quick glance at the record shows they had the lot bless them; offensive & defensive operations, exposure, illness, accidents .... Sept saw an accidental discharge of a rifle whilst being cleaned & a Pvt Holland killed a collegue & mortally wounded another. How awful. By end Sept, 5 Officers & 37 Other Ranks killed, 2 + 68 wounded, 1 + 5 missing, 12 + 287 sick in hossy, 6 died of illness. Nov saw a Pvt kill another, having mistaken him for the enemy & the men suffered from exposure badly.

If you like Ill type it out for you, but itll be tommorow now (sorry, its been a rather long day & the old grey matters a bit worn down!!). Unless he was an officer or similar, its unlikely to mention him by name, but Mr westlake combines the War Diary of the battalion with other extracts from books - looks like a pretty good account compared to some of the other units on the peninsular at the time.

If you havent already, havea look at the mother site - its got a pretty good write up on Gallipoli & quite a bit of extra info dotted around such as 'Brothers died' etc that relate to the campaign.

What was his name etc Angela? Did he survive?

Steve

[angelasmith66]

Thanks Steve. It was kind of you to look it up for me. The soldier was my grandmother's uncle, Private Bernard Stafford. He survived Gallipoli but died in Mesopotamia in November 1917. He is buried in Ramleh Cemetery, Jerusalem. he served with the 1st/5th battalion of the HLI.

[steve fuller]

No problem at all Angela. As I said, if you want me to type Westlakes bits out, say so & I will - it'd be a pleasure but I think Id put it on a word doc 7 email it to you as theres a fair amount. Let me know either way?

November 1917 suggests the Battle at Tikrit (North of Falluja in modern day Iraq - the scene of fighting even now) on Fireworks night no less (the 5th), unless he died of wounds recieved elsewhere or from an illness (which was a regular occurance in those theatres). It was the last real battle of the theatre if memory serves correctly. The Turks were dug into trenches on the cliffs & the Commonwealth forces attacked head on. The battle lasted around 3 hours & the allied cavalry suffered heavily I believe, but havent seen a mention of Infantry losses anywhere - sorry.

And all these years later, theres still battles for the same ground going on now . Still, thats life & history for ya i suppose - keeps repeating & we dont seem to learn ...

Theres a map here to show where it is http://www.firstworldwar.com/maps/graphics...1917_(1600).jpg

Unfortunatley, theres not too much written about the battle, or the theatre as a whole really. Ill have a nose at what ive got & see if anything else useful jumps out at me

Steve

[angelasmith66]

Hi Steve

Thanks for all your info about Gallipoli and Mesopotamia. Much appreciated

[Nick]

Steve,

Killed at Tikrit but buried at Jerusalem?

Sounds a bit odd.

Sure it was mesopotamia he was in and not palestine? I havent checked but were the HLI with Allenby?

Nick

[angelasmith66]

Hi Nick

The death certificate we ordered online from www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk gives his place of death as Mesopotamia and the CWG has him buried in Jerusalem. I did think it a bit strange but assumed there were no war cemetries in Iraq at that time but I am probably wrong about that!

Angela

[michaeldr]

Killed at Tikrit but buried at Jerusalem?

Sounds a bit odd.

Sure it was mesopotamia he was in and not palestine? I havent checked but were the HLI with Allenby?

Angela,

I think that Nick is onto something here and that the 1/5 HLI were in Palestine at the time of your relative’s death

The foll is from the CWGC

STAFFORD

Initials: B

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment: Highland Light Infantry

Unit Text: 1st/5th Bn.

Date of Death: 30/11/1917

Service No: 200042

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: V. 2.

Cemetery: RAMLEH WAR CEMETERY

Chris Baker’s mother site here – “The Long, Long Trail” gives the foll info re the HLI;

1/5th Battalion (City of Glasgow)

August 1914 : in Garnethill, Glasgow. Part of HLI Brigade, Lowland Division. 11 May 1915 : formation became 157th Brigade, 52nd Division

See here for his info on the 52nd Div; http://www.1914-1918.net/52div.htm

Read about the Palestine campaign here

http://www.1914-1918.net/palestine.htm

Regards

Michael D.R.

[angelasmith66]

Thanks, Michael. It seems more logical for him to have been fighting in Palestine rather than Mesopotamia. It's a bit of a mystery!

Angela

[Guest caldhbreac]

Re The Balkans. Some Regiments who served at Gallipoli also served at Salonika and was defined as the Balkans. One Regiment I definately I know of was the 5th. Battalion The Connaught Rangers and I am pretty sure there were others.

The definition as 2B can also be suspect in that my own father was shown as 2B on his Medal Roll. But he was never at Gallipoli or the Balkans. He was very badly wounded in Mesopotamia and was mentioned in despatches to prove it.

Regards

Michael McDonnell

[Blackblue]

Soldiers Died in the Great War has him listed as:

200042 Pte Bernard Stafford, 5th (City of Glasgow) Battalion, HLI

Killed in Action 30/11/1917, Egypt (obviously incorrect)

Born: Glasgow

Enlisted: Glasgow

He is in fact buried in Israel according to CGWC.

Cemetery: RAMLEH WAR CEMETERY

Country: Israel

Locality: unspecified

Visiting Information: The Cemetery is open from 0600 to 1400 seven days a week. Wheelchair access to the cemetery is possible via main entrance. For further information regarding wheelchair access, please contact our Enquiries Section on telephone number 01628 507200.

Location Information: Ramla (formerly Ramleh) is a small town 12 kilometres south-east of Jaffa. From Tel Aviv, proceed along Route One (Ayalon) towards Jerusalem. Pass the exit to Ben Gurion airport. Proceed along Route 40 to the T Junction with Route 44, signposted Bet Shemesh, Lod. Turn right and follow Route 44 towards Lod until the first set of traffic lights. Turn right towards Lod and Ramleh Prison on the Route 434. Opposite the prison turn into a minor road with a supermarket on the right. At junction turn right after approximately 100 metres. Take the first left after approximately 75 metres. Follow this minor road for approximately 300 metres veering to the left. The Cemetery entrance will be found on your right.

Historical Information: The cemetery dates from the First World War, when Ramleh (now Ramla) was occupied by the 1st Australian Light Horse Brigade on 1 November 1917. Field ambulances, and later casualty clearing stations, were posted at Ramleh and Lydda from December 1917 onwards. The cemetery was begun by the medical units, but some graves were brought in later from the battlefields and from Latron, Sarona and Wilhema Military and Indian Cemeteries. During the Second World War, this cemetery was used by the Ramla Royal Air Force Station and by various Commonwealth hospitals posted in turn to the area for varying periods. RAMLEH WAR CEMETERY contains 3,300 Commonwealth burials of the First World War, 964 of them unidentified. Second World War burials number 1,168. There are also 891 war graves of other nationalities from both wars, and 525 non-war burials, many from the RAF and garrison stations that were at Ramleh in the inter war years and until the end of the British Mandate in Palestine in 1948. Within Ramleh War Cemetery will be found: The RAMLEH 1914-18 MEMORIAL, erected in 1961 to commemorate more than 300 Commonwealth, German and Turkish servicemen of the First World War who lie buried in cemeteries elsewhere in Israel where their graves could no longer be maintained. Only 74 of the casualties are named. The RAMLEH 1939-45 MEMORIAL, commemorating 28 Jewish and non Arab servicemen of the Second World War, and six non-war casualties of the Palestine Police Force, who lie buried in cemeteries elsewhere in Israel where their graves could not be maintained in perpetuity.

Rgds

Tim

[angelasmith66]

Thanks for the reply. I have not seen the SDGW entry for him. Much appreciated.