Italian pow Austria ww1

[findingmypast]

My mother had an uncle who was a ww1 pow in Austria I think after the battle of the PO!

how do I find out where he would have been a prisoner and where his grave would be.

his name was Sebastian (or Sevarino) PIEROPAN from Lonigo Vicenza Italy.

she doesn't know any more than that sorry.....now she is 89yo she says she would like to find out.

thanks.

[bob lembke]

Hi, "findingmypast";

 

I personally don't have deep knowledge of Italian POWs in the hands of the Austrians,

but I still hope that I can help you.

 

You must have a bit more. A grave where? In other words, did he die in captivity and never come back? If so, he might be found in certain data bases, while if he made it back to Italy and then died there there would be other possibilities. Also, if you know his approximate age it would help.

 

What sort of uncle?

 

You also might try opening a thread in "Soldiers".

  

[seaJane]

I have searched the Red Cross POW files but I'm afraid cannot find him: http://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/

 

This does not mean that he was never a POW - I may have the search or the spelling incorrect.

[Flondar]

Hi findingmypast,

the ICRC page is not yet updated with the names of the Italians prisoners, every year they say it will be done "within the end of this year", but.... nothing yet.

On this site http://www.cadutigrandeguerra.it/  you can find the official list of Italians casualties (died) in WW1, whether in combat or for any other reason (imprisonment, illness, etc.) it is possible to make a search by name (cerca nominativo), but no Pieropan Sebastian or Sevarino is there.

There is, instead, a Pieropan Eucherio born in Lonigo (Vicenza) on June 19, 1894, soldier in the 98th Infantry Regt., who died on May 24, 1918 as a P.O.W., cause: accident.

 

Another way to know the story of a relative in the Italian Army from 1860 to present day is to ask for a document called "foglio matricolare" (a personal record of military life, including units, campaigns, wounds, decorations, etc): one has to send a request to "Archivio di Stato" (National Archive) in the city/province where the relative was born (for your relative is Vicenza). They only need family name, first name, place and date birth, to find it out.

Ciao

[Lombardo]

I hope you can help me find military information about my grandfather, Salvatore Lombardo, who was in the Italian Army during World War 1.He had told my father that he was  prisoner of war, "surviving on potato peels." The military records I have (attached) don't seem to say anything about him being a prisoner. Below I have done a rough translation, but it is very incomplete. Salvatore Lombardo might have been captured at the battle of Monte Grappa, where his regiment fought (see attached emblem).

Thank you for any help you can offer.

Daniel Lombardo 

Westhampton, MA 01027

U.S.A. 

Salvatore Lombardo

Standing Army Militia

Serial number 27047 Siracusa District

 

Fanteria Soldato (Infantry Soldier)

Lombardo, Salvatore, son of Vincenzo and Di Mauro, Francesca.

Born November 13, 1893 at Canicattini (Bagni),  district of Siracusa.

Military soldier, first class, 1893

District of Siracusa, 

Called to arms and joined 16 May 1917.

….. in the 289 Battalion H. T. 26 May 1917.

Transferred to 30 “Costegoria Secisione” (?) Seven (?)

Recommended he advances (?)  5/15/1917 .... 15 N 353

…in machine-gunner school……     9 November 1917

Arrived in the territory declared warzone 24 December 1917

… in 119 Infantry Regiment (Depot 31?) … from 2 Aprile 1918

…in    6 nov 1918

… in 2129 Comp. … 22 Feb 1918 (?)

Repatriated 10 November 1918

In … 33 Infantry    4 February 1919

[bob lembke]

Daniel;

 

The use of the word "repatriated" in your translation strongly suggests that he was returned from captivity. I think that Austro-Hungary ceased hostilities shortly before the truce on the West Front, which was November 11th. So repatriation on November 10th was very quick but possible. The Austro-Hungarians used many POWs on Alpine road work, for example in present-day Slovenija, and he may have had this duty right behind the fighting lines. My former Slovene climbing guide's father was a Russian POW held in Slovenija, and at the end of the war he had the good sense to stay in Slovenija, I met him at 95.

[Flondar]

Daniel,

the military record (foglio matricolare?) is not very clear... Is it handwritten?

"289 battaglione H.T." could be "289° battaglione M.T.", that is "Milizia Territoriale", a part of the Italian army in WW1, a sort of 3rd line army, where a lot of draftees were initially sent.

On 9 nov.1917 he was sent to machine-gunner school;

24 dec. 1917 "in territorio dichiarato in stato di guerra" you translated it right - that is the Northeastern part of Italy, the regions of Veneto, Trentino, Friuli, and part of Lombardia where the war was fought (in Dec,1917 the Austro-Hungarians had already occupied all Friuli, most of the Trentino and part of Veneto)

on 22 feb.1918 he was assigned (probably) to the 2129th machine-gun company (not sure if there was such a high number of m.g. companies, it can be);

on 2 apr.1918 he was in the 119th Infantry Regiment (with the 120th Inf.Reg. it formed the "Brigata Emilia", each Inf. Brigate was made of 2 Inf.Regs.)

Now:

from 8 april until 25 may 1918 the 119th I.R. was at rest, but on the 26 it was sent on Monte Grappa, deployed between a place called "Porte Salton" and Val Calcino (Calcino Valley) at the Q.(Hill) 1240 and 1292, and places named Camparona and Camparonetta.

Fought there until 19 Jul, then sent to rest until 22 Aug.

On 23 Aug was sent back to Monte Grappa (Malga Val dei Pez and Malga Fossa dei Confini - "Malga" is an Italian word indicating a mountain house used by mountain dwellers for summer cattle pasture). Stayed there until 4 Oct. 1918. From 5 Oct. the Inf. Brigade was sent to rest behind the front line and did not take part in any more fighting.

 

I got these informations from a series of books, printed in the 1920s-'30s, with the summaries of the regimental diaries of all the infantry regiments of the Italian Army in WW1.

 

The word "repatriated" suggests (as Bob Lembke writes) that he was taken prisoner, but it is very strange that this is not reported on the military record.

It seems after repatriation he was assigned to 33th Inf. Reg. (Brigata Livorno) and, on 4 Feb. 1919, he was discharged.

 

Hope that helps a little...

Ciao

[Lombardo]

Thank you so much. This is very helpful. Would you look at the attached   scans of the actual documents for your interpretation? 

[Flondar]

HI Daniel,

the images, at this resolution, are still difficult to read.

Anyway, what I can read is (not in order as reported in the records, but according to dates):

Initially not fit for duty and discharged on 4 May 1917

Drafted again on 16 May 1917 and assigned to the 289th Territorial Militia Btl., according decision by Consiglio di Leva (the military office thad declared one fit for duty - "Leva" meant compulsory military service) of 15 May 1917 (of course, during the war, they changed the decision for many of those not at first declared fit for duty and sent them to the frontline, due to the high rate of casualties)

"Tale (arrived) nel Dep. (Deposito: Depot - sort of replacement depot) -number not clear- S.Etienne - Torino (?)"  6 Nov.1917 (Before m.gunnery school)

St. Etienne was a kind of French machine gun; in the Italian Army there were machine gun companies equipped with "Fiat" (italian made) machine guns and "St.Etienne" (French made) machine guns  -

Arrived at machine gunnery school at (location....?) 2 Dec. 1917 - He was trained as a machine gunner

Arrived in War Zone 24 Dec. 1917

Arrived at 2829th machine gun company  22 Feb. 1918 - machine gun companies were indipendent units that were assigned to different infantry regiments - so:

Arrived at Depot of 119th Inf. Reg. 30 Apr. 1918

Taken prisoner of war in the fighting at (....) 15 June 1918 ("prigioniero di guerra nel fatto d'armi ...... 15.6.18 "  -  but I am not able to read the location.

"Rimpatriato 10.11.1918", as above , returned from captivity.

Arrived at 33rd Inf. Reg. 4 Feb. 1919 (assigned to this Inf. Reg. after repatriation, waiting for discharge)

 

Here in Italy a book about ALL the machine gun companies of italian Army in WW1 has been published some years ago, but, unfortunately, I don't have it.... Maybe, with it, one could find about the 2829th m.g.company and its story.

Anyway, from the 1920's Italian Ministry of War publication of "summaries" of regimental war diaries, for the Brigata Emilia (119th and 120th Inf.Regs.), it is reported: "In the night between 14-15 June 1918, at the beginnnig of the great Austrian offensive, the enemy, after an intense bombardment, throws its waves towards Porte di Salton – Val Calcino and at first is stopped. But the heavy fog lets it infiltrate Val Calcino towards Hills 1240 and 1292 and to threaten the italian positions of Mt.Medata, but the resistence of Brigata Emilia  stops it and push it away from Hill 1292, capturing 6oo prisoners. But the Brigata Emilia loses 31 officers and 854 other ranks. Later, the heavy fog forces it to abandon Hill 1292 that, on 4 July, is retaken and reinforced."  ....just 4 lines for so much struggle and casualties.... Your relative was one of those 854...

I have a regimental medal of Brigata Emilia with engraved WW1 battle honours (and porte Salton) in my collection, see if I can post it here....

Ciao - Enrico

Edited 27 November , 2016 by Flondar

[Flondar]

Here is the Brigata Emilia's (119th-120th Inf. Regs.) commemorative medal (bronze, about 1 inch in diameter)

Almost every WW1 Italian Army unit had its one coined during the war or as soon as it ended.

At the foot of the soldier it is written: "Here Brigata Emilia stopped the rapacious eagle - Porte Salton - 15 June 1918".

On the other side there are the battle honours, almost all in the Italian/Slovenian border, and Monte Grappa. (Sorry for the size..)

Regards.

Edited 28 November , 2016 by Flondar

[Lombardo]

Enrico,

Many, many thanks for the extraordinary work you have done for me. My family is eternally grateful, as we know very little about my grandfather except for his loneliness in America (without his wife and child -- my father), and his tragic death in a state hospital in 1947.

My wife and I, in fact, will be planning a trip to Monte Grappa to see where my grandfather fought and was captured.

 

The Great War Forum site could not send documents of a higher resolution than those I posted. If you might like to see better copies, is there

an email address or other address I can send them to you? You can send it to this address: djlombardo@juno.com

Mille grazie,

Dan Lombardo

 

[Flondar]

Hi Dan, I sent you an email on 6 Dec., check if it got caught in the spam folder...