Rob Bulloch Posted 9 June , 2016 Share Posted 9 June , 2016 My first attempt at relic clean up and display. The only thing I forgot to do was to do was to photograph the relics before cleaning them. The wood base I put together in my workshop. Aye Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 9 June , 2016 Share Posted 9 June , 2016 Don't you think thin wooden dowels would have been better than bare phillips screws? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Bulloch Posted 9 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 9 June , 2016 Don't you think thin wooden dowels would have been better than bare phillips screws?johnboy if you are referring to the pins holding the bayo's in the upright position, I suggest you have a closer look. They are brass pins! Yer takin the p*** ain't ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 9 June , 2016 Share Posted 9 June , 2016 Nice display, I like the stand construction as well, is there any story relating to the recovery of the bayonets? khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 9 June , 2016 Share Posted 9 June , 2016 johnboy if you are referring to the pins holding the bayo's in the upright position, I suggest you have a closer look. They are brass pins! Yer takin the p*** ain'y ya! In the pic they look like self tappers. Maybe the pic ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Bulloch Posted 9 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 9 June , 2016 Nice display, I like the stand construction as well, is there any story relating to the recovery of the bayonets? khaki khaki. Thanks for your comment. The stand was made from small pieces of mahogany and white oak I had on my workshop. The bayonets were found by a farmer in the Chemin de Dames area, and that is all I know about them. I have been told the French bayonet is an early pattern? Aye Rob. In the pic they look like self tappers. Maybe the pic ! It may be your eyesight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 9 June , 2016 Share Posted 9 June , 2016 Quite possibly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Bulloch Posted 9 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 9 June , 2016 Quite possibly All joking aside johnboy. The pins are brass cribbage pegs and have rings round them, perhaps that is why they look like screws. The photograph angle also makes the pins look wider at the top than the bottom, but they are parallel. Aye Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 9 June , 2016 Share Posted 9 June , 2016 Nice display. I like the 79th tartan in the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Bulloch Posted 9 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 9 June , 2016 Thanks for the comment gordon92. The Erracht tartan background is the remnants of old child size kilt. It makes a great background for photographs. Aye Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 9 June , 2016 Share Posted 9 June , 2016 ... I have been told the French bayonet is an early pattern? Nice display that! Have you varnished the bayonets? Top one certainly a pre 1916 S.98/05 a.A. with high ears and the locket surviving from the leather scabbard. But the bottom one - are you sure it is French? What blade section is it - T-shape? It looks to me rather like a P.1907 HQ with the quillon knocked askance and the top part of the locket still there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Bulloch Posted 9 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 9 June , 2016 The stand minus the bayonets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Bulloch Posted 9 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 9 June , 2016 TRAJAN. Thanks for the comments and the information. As I said I do not know anything about them with the exception of knowing where they were found. The process I used was I immersed them in a vinegar bath for about a week then I cleaned them with a soft brass wire brush, then repeated the bath process (New vinegar) another final brush then several coats of lacquer. Q should I have left them without coating them? Aye Rob. Added. Sorry Julian I forgot to add.. No the blade is not T'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 9 June , 2016 Share Posted 9 June , 2016 I'm pretty sure the lower one is a P1907 HQ as Julian suggested. Nice stand Rob. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 9 June , 2016 Share Posted 9 June , 2016 A nicely made stand and display, and as already indicated, the lower bayonet looks to be a British Pattern 1907 Sword Bayonet with Hooked Quillon. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Bulloch Posted 9 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 9 June , 2016 Chris and LF thank you for your comments. Aye Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhausen Posted 10 June , 2016 Share Posted 10 June , 2016 Hello, I'm a friend of Rob and the one who bought the bayo's in France on his behalf and sent it up to Canada. I'm not a specialist but in my opinion it's a French M 1874 bayo. At first I was confused and really was thinking of an early P 1907 (with Quillion), so I put that P1907 of my collection aside the relic and there was a difference. Besides, in my opinion the blade had an T section blade. Sometimes hard to see on a relic. So if it's really a P 1907,then I was wrong, my apologies to Rob for giving him wrong information. Kind regards from Flanders, Jef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 10 June , 2016 Share Posted 10 June , 2016 Hi Jef If it has a T section blade that would change things! (Rob any chance of a shot showing the blade cross-section?) But an M1874 would also have had a brass pommel wouldn't it? And I am not sure it would have corroded in the same way -- also the end of the pommel (where the wood scales fit) is angled on an M1874 and straight on a P1907 - this looks straight, the distance between the screws for the wooden scales would also probably differ so that would be one way to tell..(I'll need to measure my examples tomorrow for comparison). If I am remembering correctly the M1897 crossguard is riveted in place with fairly conspicuous rivets which I would expect there to be some evidence of, however, as I said if it does have a t-cross section blade then that would be diagnostic I think. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 10 June , 2016 Share Posted 10 June , 2016 ... If it has a T section blade that would change things! ... But an M1874 would also have had a brass pommel wouldn't it? And I am not sure it would have corroded in the same way -- also the end of the pommel (where the wood scales fit) is angled on an M1874 and straight on a P1907 - this looks straight, the distance between the screws for the wooden scales would also probably differ so that would be one way to tell... If I am remembering correctly the M1897 crossguard is riveted in place with fairly conspicuous rivets which I would expect there to be some evidence of ... Base metal always goes first and so a brass pommel would not corrode and loose its shape as fast as the blade - and in any case it would have a greenish to brownish corrosion product. The possibility of it being an Arisaka M.1897 is certainly a valid alternative. I can see why Jef discounted a P.1907 though, as the quillon seems way too long. But, if damaged? Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhausen Posted 10 June , 2016 Share Posted 10 June , 2016 Hi all, I did not cleaned the bayo, I sent it up to canada like I got it,with lots of dirt around, maybe with cleaning some details might appear. Jef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 10 June , 2016 Share Posted 10 June , 2016 The lower bayonet is STILL a relic P1907. It is not French, and does not have a T section blade. It clearly has a fullered blade, which T section blades do not have. The shape of the handle and pommel also rules out any French bayonets. The corrosion does hinder identification a tad but neither does it have an Arisaka quillon. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 10 June , 2016 Share Posted 10 June , 2016 I saw the tip of this bayonet (standard 07 pattern?) sticking out of the trench front at Serre in the 80s. I was just in front of where the Accrington Pals memorial stands now. I`d like to think it was a Pal`s bayonet but realise that that trench was occupied for a long time thereafter. How might a bayonet get buried horizontally, waist height and almost parallel to the trench? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 10 June , 2016 Share Posted 10 June , 2016 Can't explain the way it was buried, but yes, a P.1907. The lack of a quillon tells us only that it is post-1913, which doesn't hep in assigning it to any unit in that area, but if there is no clearance hole in the pommel, then it could be one that was made and issued before early 1916. That's when they started to be made with these clearance holes, and many pre-1916 bayonets had them added later on - but not all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 10 June , 2016 Share Posted 10 June , 2016 I saw the tip of this bayonet (standard 07 pattern?) sticking out of the trench front at Serre in the 80s. I was just in front of where the Accrington Pals memorial stands now. I`d like to think it was a Pal`s bayonet but realise that that trench was occupied for a long time thereafter. How might a bayonet get buried horizontally, waist height and almost parallel to the trench? Nice find. Regards. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 10 June , 2016 Share Posted 10 June , 2016 but if there is no clearance hole in the pommel, then it could be one that was made and issued before early 1916. That's when they started to be made with these clearance holes, and many pre-1916 bayonets had them added later on - but not all... It appears not to have a clearance hole. Could still have arrived in the trench at any time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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