BRITISH HOSPITAL BOMBED 23 AUGUST 1917

[Guest]

Could any discerning medico assist? I have a casualty for Wanstead, here in the east of London- 2LT Ralf Hubert Robinson, Rifle Brigade, listed by CWGC as died 23 August 1917. Other sources indicate he was wounded on 16th August 1917 and died of wounds on 23rd. However, his Officer File says that the hospital he was in was bombed- it does not elucidate but raises the question as to whether he died of wounds received in action on 16th August 1917, or from another does of wounds received when a hospital was bombed on 23rd August.

There are newspaper reports of French hopsitals being bombed behind the lines at Verdun c.23rd August but nothing about British ones.

Would any kindly member know of British casualties caused by German bombing of a rear hospital at or about this date???

 

[kenf48]

Sue Light's Scarletfinders website has the war diary of the Matron in Chief which shows 47 CCS was bombed on the 22 August with heavy casualties including 12 deaths. http://www.scarletfinders.co.uk/70.html

The location of 47 CCS is given on the L LT as Lozinghemhttp://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/locations-of-british-casualty-clearing-stations/

Looking at the casualties interred near him on that date there is a Pte Scales RAMC who could be the orderly mentioned in the diary, but I'm not too sure on the relation of Lozingheim to the cemetery.

My g-uncle was killed in a bombing raid on Etaples, also shown as died of wounds, the casualties from that raid are all interred in a single row in the Cemetery. You may be able to find a similar pattern from the cemetery records.

Does his record not say where he was evacuated to?

Soldiers effects shows KiA perhaps a death certificate might give place of death?

Ken

[Guest]

Thanks Ken- Im still not sure the Scarletfinders is the same- a collegue has a 58 year old from Essex killed 1918-George Augustus Fry, killed in a German bombing raid in the Calais area.

I asked becuase the Officers File entry is rather ambiguous. Similarly, I have another por so-and so for Wanstead, east of London, who died when the hospital ship bringing him back to Southampton was sunk. OK, people are killed every year in the UK when ambulances crash,etc- but the record of subsequent cock-up accidents is very uclear-not always a straightforward "killed in action"

[TEW]

There's a thinned out list of some bombing events around Aug 1917 in British Nursing Journal.

TEW

[kenf48]

No 'war weariness' in that blood curdling editorial!

Ken

[TEW]

Found an entry in 61CCS diary that it was bombed on night of 17th Aug 1917, 1 OR killed/ Wounded - 2 officers, 3 nursing sisters, 6 ORs.

Bombed again night of 20th Aug, casualties all patients. 2 ORs killed, 2 ORs DOW, 18 Wounded.

Based in Dozinghem at the time, grouped with 4 & 47 CCS

TEW

[Loader]

Since the hospital he was in being bombed is mentioned in his official record It seems to me that it must have had a direct bearing on his death. Otherwise why mention it in his record? Just my opinion of course but makes sense to me.

[James A Pratt III]

In OTF 30-2 there is a translated version of the German NB for 31 July-7August 1917. They report KG 1 and KG 4 carrying out bombing raids during this time frame. These could be the same units bombing the hospitals later on this month.

[John Milner]

He is buried in LIJSSENTHOEK MILITARY CEMETERY, so it could be possible he was in one the CCSs in the Remy Siding area.

John

[TEW]

I have the following list from Medical History Of The War. but having just checked against 10CCS for the dates given something is amiss.

 

From diaries:

10CCS Their location given as Abeele for all of 1917, no indication of being bombed during August.

17CCS Was bombed at Remy Siding on 17th Aug.

13CCS Arrived at Remy Siding on 25th Aug from Tincourt and left again on 1st Sept., no intake. Oddly, they moved to site of 10CCS at Elverdinge.

TEW

[TEW]

Just to add, 2nd Lt. Robinson was 2nd Bn. Rifle Brigade he is mentioned in their dairy as DOW along with 2nd Lt C Mackeson who specifically DOW 16/8/17. Mackeson is buried at Brandhoek (relevant shortly).

 

2/RB were in 25th Infantry Brigade, 8th Division, II Corps. The offensive action on 16th Aug is well accounted for in 8 Div & 25 IB HQ diaries with medical evacuation procedure laid out by 5th Army DMS 24/7/17, reiterated in 8 Div ADMS diary and II Corps DDMS.

 

Briefly, 2/RB were mopping up behind 1st Sherwood Foresters. Wounded from this frontage (those lucky enough to make it back) were taken from RAP to ADS on the Menin Rd. From there it is specified that II Corps wounded & sick were to be sent to Remy Siding and 10CCS, 17CCS ( 2 & 3 Canadian CCS also there). UNLESS they had abdominal wounds in which case they were to be sent to 32 CCS in the Brandhoek group of CCSs. This is why Mackeson ended up at Brandhoek.

 

17CCS opened for intake on the 16th at 6.30am had 5 intake periods that day each lasting an hour or so, probably alternating with the other CCSs. 17CCS took in 45 Officers in the 24 hours 7am-7am. However, 42 wounded Officers had been evacuated out of 17CCS between 7am on 16th & 9am 17th. Somehow they still had 10 wounded officers at 9am on 17th. 4 more officers were evacuated at 3.30pm on 17th.

 

17CCS was bombed at 9.20pm on the 17th, presumably with about 6? wounded officers present out of a probable intake of 55. As John pointed out, Robinson is buried in LIJSSENTHOEK so does not seem to have been evacuated from Remy Siding by AT. The casualty list for the air raid includes some patients killed/wounded.

 

10CCS make no mention of being bombed themselves 16th-23rd but do mention the raid on 17CCS.

 

Just to complete the scene, the Brandhoek group of CCSs were shelled on the 21st Aug and all patients evacuated to 10CCS. 10CCS does state that 4 officers died there on 23rd.

 

However you look at it if Robinson received an abdominal wound and was sent to Brandhoek it must have been a serious wound not to evacuate him, then for him to be there on the 21st when it was shelled and be evacuated to 10CCS. Mackeson would have ended up at 10CCS had he not DOW on 16th.

 

OR

 

Robinson went from ADS on Menin Rd to 17CCS which was bombed the following evening, maybe he was wounded again or succumbed to his original wound a week later. But again, his wound must have been serious not to evacuate him from 17CCS in the preceding 24 hours.

TEW