Sidearm Posted 30 May , 2016 Share Posted 30 May , 2016 This is a bit of an unusual puzzle. Last week I was in the Sheffield Local Studies Library. Amongst the documents I saw were editions of "The Bombshell", the company magazine of Thomas Firth & Sons, steelmakers of Sheffield. In the edition for January 1919 there was an anonymised but nevertheless fairly detailed article written by a tank commander about how his tank was hit, wounding him and killing a gunner. The tank was abandoned and destroyed by a charge left inside it. I have no details like the officer's name, or Battalion, or the identity of the tank, or where this took place or even the date when it happened. I would like to find all these details... What I do have is a lot of biographical information about the officer. He: was a member of staff at Thomas Firth & Sons' Norfolk Works in Sheffield before the war. I would therefore expect him to be a resident of Sheffield. joined up in August 1914 went to Egypt in July 1915 with the 6th Yorks and Lancs transferred with that regiment to the Western Front twelve months later served there until February 1917 came back to the UK to train for his commission was gazetted to the Tank Corps in July 1917 after the incident that was the subject of the article, he was wounded and evacuated This is beyond my expertise and I'm hoping that others may be able to help me. I should say that my interest is that if the tank can be identified I'd like to add details into my database, but more importantly if the man can be identified I'll write to Sheffield library and let them know. It would be good to put a name to the account. Thanks everyone. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks3 Posted 30 May , 2016 Share Posted 30 May , 2016 Gwyn I think the first place to start would be to see which officers were gazetted in July 1917 to the Tank Corps. Once you know that it would be a case of going to TNA to look at the records of each of the of the officers found to, hopefully, tie them down with the other details you have. Sadly officers papers are not online so it would have to be a trip. Maybe someone on the forum could at least begin by seeing who was gazetted Tanks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 30 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2016 Thanks for this Tanks3 I did a search on the London Gazette for "Tank" between 01/07/1917 and 31/07/1917 and didn't find him, but I wasn't sure if "gazetted ... July 1917" meant that the notice was published that month, or if it might have been published before or afterwards, but became effective that month. Like I say, this isn't my area of expertise so I am doubtless asking beginner's questions here. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 30 May , 2016 Share Posted 30 May , 2016 Gwyn I am a London Gazette search virgin (or perhaps more accurately, fool) so I can't help with the first part but I am happy to check out any records at the NA when I next head up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBrook Posted 30 May , 2016 Share Posted 30 May , 2016 Checking the October 1917 Army List, all commissions (2nd Lts.) to The Tank Corps in July 1917 were dated 27th, except one dated 25th. The latter was Pte. F. Paget and he was gazetted under the heading Machine Gun Corps (Heavy). The gazette links are:- https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30235/supplement/8443 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30268/supplement/9222 Checking the medal index cards on ancestry using search terms York and Lancaster Regt. and keywords Tank Corps, and vice versa, finds no one listed in the gazette notifications, and starting to search the list by name finds no medal index card at all for some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 30 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2016 Thank you very much Harry. I presume that those dated 27 July were "ordinary" commissions of men who had joined as officers rather than risen through the ranks, unlike Paget. If so, it would seem that Paget should be the man. The lack of hits on Ancestry is disconcerting, however. Gareth: thanks for your kind offer. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 30 May , 2016 Share Posted 30 May , 2016 Have started but think this is a three pipe problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 30 May , 2016 Share Posted 30 May , 2016 Not sure if it helps any " Tank Corps. (Engr. Branch"). The undermentioned temp. 2nd Lts. to be Temp Lts. ....F Paget (acting Capt) 25 Jan 1919 " Click Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 30 May , 2016 Share Posted 30 May , 2016 (edited) Hi Try this one...Douglas Charles Allen, born Sheffield 1889, 1901 census his father is a Steel (looks like) Manufacturer. His Mic shows him as a Captain in the York and Lancs and a Major in the Tank Corps. When he applied for the 15 Star in 1919 the address given is..... Bolton Steel Works, Bolton, Lancs.!! Regards Barry 1891 census visitor to Scarborough with parents, father Charles 'Steel Merchant', 1911 his brother Cecil is Director of Steel Works. His g/father William Daniel Allen was also a Steel Manufacturer..1861 1908 was a 2nd Lt. in the 4th West Riding Yorkshire RGA Volunteers. Looks like his father was .Col. Sir Charles Allen as he had a sister Nora mentioned in the Sheffield Evening Telegraph in 1910 re her wedding., Nora b.1887 on the 1891 census. Edited 30 May , 2016 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 30 May , 2016 Share Posted 30 May , 2016 Hi, I was hoping that a search of the LG for Tank Corps commissions published in July 1917 could be cross referenced against MICs/Medal Rolls, but drew a blank. I (or the text reader software) may well have missed something though. A long winded page by page browse of each edition might show something. I also cross searched the MICs using the search terms of keyword = "York", and regiment or corps = "Tank". There were several hits, but nothing I saw for a man in the York & Lancs (subsequently serving as an officer in the Tank Corps), with an appropriate disembarkation date in the appropriate theatre. Taken the "known" information at face value he should have qualified for the 14/15 Star, and it should be possible to create a shortlist of contenders by looking at the Regimental 14/15 Star Roll, looking for men with a qualifying date of July 1915, with a comment of "commissioned" (or similar) in the "Remarks" column, and then cross referencing against Tank Corps records. What confuses this for me is I'm not 100% sure of the theatre to look for. The info provided intimates that he went to Egypt in July 1915 with the 6th Battalion. However, their war diary shows that in July 1915 they left Liverpool for Gallipoli, and didn't leave there for Egypt until December 1915. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loader Posted 30 May , 2016 Share Posted 30 May , 2016 IS there a published history of the 6/Y & L for WW1? If so it may show those men who were commissioned from the Bn. Long shot I know but might help. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 30 May , 2016 Share Posted 30 May , 2016 10722 Sgt Edwin Frank Sherwood went to Dardanelles 5/7/1915 with 6th Y&L, transferred to MGC number 104223. Commissioned Tank Corps 27/7/1917. 1921 Address - 176 South View Road, Sheffield. "1918 Amiens, tanks broke the Hindenburg line, sent his last letter from the front on 10th August from a german bunker, again leading his tank forward on foot and it was hit by artillery, he lay in no mans land for 3 days crawling into a disused German bunker until discovered by a bombing party. Severely wounded he was nursed back to health by his fiance Maggie buxton whose travel to the hospital in France his commander had arranged." Brief bio and photo here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/remembrance/wall/record/23068 Ancestry MIC - http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1262/30850_A001406-02550?pid=1834153&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk//cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DLSo92%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3DMedalRolls%26gss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26gskw%3DEdwin%2520Frank%2520Sherwood%26gskw_x%3D1%26MSAV%3D1%26uidh%3Didw%26pcat%3DMIL_AWARDS%26fh%3D1%26h%3D1834153%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D2&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=LSo92&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 31 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2016 IPT: I think you have cracked it! Congratulations, and my profound thanks to all who've contributed to this thread. However the D42 information on the BBC site is wrong. D42 was a D Battalion tank, and D Battalion weren't in action on 31 July 1917. On 21 August tank D42 was hit by German artillery before it was due to enter action the following day. it was replaced by a tank borrowed from (and never returned to) G Battalion. The original D42 was repaired and having survived the war can be seen to this day at the Museum of Lincolnshire Life. This tank was commanded by 2/Lt H. L. Sherwood, not E. F. Sherwood. Sadly I cannot presently link E. F. Sherwood to a particular tank at the Battle of Amiens, but I'll look further into it. Thanks again everyone. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 31 May , 2016 Share Posted 31 May , 2016 Hi Gwyn, Following on from IPTs excellent find, it appears that he served post war with under the administrative (re)number of P43634, and that his service record is held by the MoD rather than the National Archives. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 1 June , 2016 Share Posted 1 June , 2016 IPT: I think you have cracked it! Congratulations, and my profound thanks to all who've contributed to this thread. However the D42 information on the BBC site is wrong. D42 was a D Battalion tank, and D Battalion weren't in action on 31 July 1917. On 21 August tank D42 was hit by German artillery before it was due to enter action the following day. it was replaced by a tank borrowed from (and never returned to) G Battalion. The original D42 was repaired and having survived the war can be seen to this day at the Museum of Lincolnshire Life. This tank was commanded by 2/Lt H. L. Sherwood, not E. F. Sherwood. Sadly I cannot presently link E. F. Sherwood to a particular tank at the Battle of Amiens, but I'll look further into it. Thanks again everyone. Gwyn I have had a search of the WDs, he was in 11th Bn in 1918. He only gets 1 mention: 23 Aug 18: Action with 56th Div at Boyelles by A and C Companies, 9 tanks each. Casualties: Lts A Davenport, H R Kingwell killed. Lts F R Norton, E F Sherwood, J H Lawson-Walton wounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 1 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 1 June , 2016 Thank you very much indeed. Made my day! There is a dearth of information on 11th Battalion so this is very helpful. Thank you everyone. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 1 June , 2016 Share Posted 1 June , 2016 For those with access to Ancestry, there is a family tree with several pictures of Edwin http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/32280077/person/18988249508/gallery He became a priest (clue found from the link to the RAChD mentioned above in which he served during the Second World War Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 2 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 2 June , 2016 I am astonished at the research abilities of those on this Forum. Thank you Stephen. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 3 June , 2016 Share Posted 3 June , 2016 Gwyn I am equally astonished about the level of tank information you, and others, have been able to provide Just glad to pay back a little of the help received over the years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 4 June , 2016 Author Share Posted 4 June , 2016 Most kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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