Troopship 'SENCAS'.

[jolman]

Can anyone tell me if there was a Troopship named "SENCAS"

My Grandfather is recorded on an Australian document as returning from ww1 on 14.07.1919 with the "Returning Transport" named 'SENCAS'.

I cannot find this ship anywhere. Google hasn't even heard of it.

The name is very clear, as it has been typed.

I would greatly appreciate some help.

Janice

[stirrer]

Might it be an acronym, not the name of a ship? If you can post an image of the relevant section of the document, it might give a clue.

[sotonmate]

Nearest I can get is SENLAC. I am in town today and will look at the Lloyd's Lists for the WW1 era.Basic info,the builder, may get access to a photo at least as there are a few databases like that.

[johnboy]

Does the document state where he sailed from?

[sotonmate]

Janice

Lloyd's Register is an extensive catalogue of worldwide certified shipping and is usually published on a yearly basis.

I have been to my local city Library today (while the lady was looking for a dress- a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do !), which specialises in Maritime Collections, and looked in the Registers from 1917 to 1920. These tomes are almost devoid of ANY shipping with anything like the name SENCAS. The nearest I saw was SENTIND a USA registered oil exploration vessel of Seattle WA, and, as I mentioned before, SENLAC a Canadian-registered vessel of 707 tons of the Port of Halifax NS, which both seem unlikely candidates for trooping due to size and function.

One other item I can suggest which you will obviously have to get someone to look up for you at the National Archives at Kew. There are files in the series WO25 with copies of documents for military shipping movements, these are maintained in a date sequence and show ship's names, ports of departure and destination and numbers on board (plus names if an Officer but not if a lower rank). I will see if I can find the reference for this so that you know what to ask for.

You might post here where your subject sailed home from and to as it might help with the quest. If he didn't leave a UK port he won't be in the UK file for that date period etc.

Later:

Likely to be file WO25/3739 which covers ships left UK for abroad between April and Dec 1919.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4400602

If you are unable to get a look up let me know near the end of June as I plan to be at Kew early in July.

[johnboy]

I am tending towards the suggestions in post #2. The CAS at the end could be casualty? A copy of the document is a must. If you can locate any other men within his regiment you might find similar info re repatriation.

[jolman]

Thankyou everyone for your comments.

I will endeavour to copy the page to my computer and post it for you to see. It was mailed to me on A3 size paper from National Archives Australia.

Janice

[jolman]

Janice

Lloyd's Register is an extensive catalogue of worldwide certified shipping and is usually published on a yearly basis.

I have been to my local city Library today (while the lady was looking for a dress- a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do !), which specialises in Maritime Collections, and looked in the Registers from 1917 to 1920. These tomes are almost devoid of ANY shipping with anything like the name SENCAS. The nearest I saw was SENTIND a USA registered oil exploration vessel of Seattle WA, and, as I mentioned before, SENLAC a Canadian-registered vessel of 707 tons of the Port of Halifax NS, which both seem unlikely candidates for trooping due to size and function.

One other item I can suggest which you will obviously have to get someone to look up for you at the National Archives at Kew. There are files in the series WO25 with copies of documents for military shipping movements, these are maintained in a date sequence and show ship's names, ports of departure and destination and numbers on board (plus names if an Officer but not if a lower rank). I will see if I can find the reference for this so that you know what to ask for.

You might post here where your subject sailed home from and to as it might help with the quest. If he didn't leave a UK port he won't be in the UK file for that date period etc.

Later:

Likely to be file WO25/3739 which covers ships left UK for abroad between April and Dec 1919.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4400602

If you are unable to get a look up let me know near the end of June as I plan to be at Kew early in July.

As far as I know, he left from England.

[frev]

Janice - can you let us know the name and service no. of your Grandfather, so we can look at his service record on-line?

I've learnt never to trust the typed pages in the records - as often they have been transcribed by a clerk who has simply done his best to decipher a handwritten copy - and quite often badly.

The name of the ship should be written more than once in the records, and it's possible that one of us might be able to decipher it....

Cheers, Frev

[jolman]

I can't remember how to upload a picture.

Could someone please help. I have only done it once before, a long time ago.

Janice

Janice - can you let us know the name and service no. of your Grandfather, so we can look at his service record on-line?

I've learnt never to trust the typed pages in the records - as often they have been transcribed by a clerk who has simply done his best to decipher a handwritten copy - and quite often badly.

The name of the ship should be written more than once in the records, and it's possible that one of us might be able to decipher it....

Cheers, Frev

E.P. Hole 45660 RFA

[jolman]

Have found out how to attach picture but its too big to attach.

Will photograph it and use that picture. Hopefully that will work.

Thanks for your patience.

[jolman]

Does the document state where he sailed from?

No it doesnt say where he came from, sorry. I am pretty sure it was England.

[jolman]

Janice

Lloyd's Register is an extensive catalogue of worldwide certified shipping and is usually published on a yearly basis.

I have been to my local city Library today (while the lady was looking for a dress- a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do !), which specialises in Maritime Collections, and looked in the Registers from 1917 to 1920. These tomes are almost devoid of ANY shipping with anything like the name SENCAS. The nearest I saw was SENTIND a USA registered oil exploration vessel of Seattle WA, and, as I mentioned before, SENLAC a Canadian-registered vessel of 707 tons of the Port of Halifax NS, which both seem unlikely candidates for trooping due to size and function.

One other item I can suggest which you will obviously have to get someone to look up for you at the National Archives at Kew. There are files in the series WO25 with copies of documents for military shipping movements, these are maintained in a date sequence and show ship's names, ports of departure and destination and numbers on board (plus names if an Officer but not if a lower rank). I will see if I can find the reference for this so that you know what to ask for.

You might post here where your subject sailed home from and to as it might help with the quest. If he didn't leave a UK port he won't be in the UK file for that date period etc.

Later:

Likely to be file WO25/3739 which covers ships left UK for abroad between April and Dec 1919.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4400602

If you are unable to get a look up let me know near the end of June as I plan to be at Kew early in July.

Thanks Sotonmate. As usual, you have been most helpful. I am pretty sure he left from England after the war and came straight to Australia. I am trying to attach a picture of the document but not having much luck. Will try again after a good night sleep.

[stirrer]

Might be a red herring - searching on Army/Medical Abbreviations and Acronyms websites, most of them give 'CAS' as 'Casualty', and one gives, in British and Australian Army terms - 'SEN' = 'State Enrolled Nurse'.

[jolman]

I'm afraid I can't attach a picture of the document. The photo of it, from my camera, is even too large to attach.

The word is typed exactly as follows: SENCAS.

This word does not appear again on the page.

Other names in this column are:ULYSSES, BENALLA, ORSOVA, DUNEGAN CASTLE, AENEAS, COMMONWEALTH, ANCHISES, LEICESTER, HELUAN, RUGIA.

Might be a red herring - searching on Army/Medical Abbreviations and Acronyms websites, most of them give 'CAS' as 'Casualty', and one gives, in British and Australian Army terms - 'SEN' = 'State Enrolled Nurse'.

It did cross my mind also, the CAS being Casualty. But decided it didn't really fit as it is typed in a column under a heading of 'RETURNING TRANSPORT', along with other names of ships as I have included in the post.

I'm going to go back to the National Archives Australia and see if someone there can shed some light on the problem.

Thank you to each of you for your effort.

Very grateful.............

Janice

[frev]

Janice - hadn't realised your Grandfather was an Imperial Reservist (& not AIF - so of course no service record at the NAA)

However, I'd have a guess that the return transport was actually the Aeneas - which can easily be mistaken for Sencas in some of the handwritten written records for other soldiers.

And it disembarked troops in Melbourne on the 12/7/1919 - the Qld men then travelling by rail & arriving in Qld on the 14/7/1919.

Best of luck in your search, Frev

[sotonmate]

Good job Frev !

http://www.murphyswar.com.au/wp-content/uploads/PB0002.jpg

HMAT60 AENEAS

[jolman]

Janice - hadn't realised your Grandfather was an Imperial Reservist (& not AIF - so of course no service record at the NAA)

However, I'd have a guess that the return transport was actually the Aeneas - which can easily be mistaken for Sencas in some of the handwritten written records for other soldiers.

And it disembarked troops in Melbourne on the 12/7/1919 - the Qld men then travelling by rail & arriving in Qld on the 14/7/1919.

Best of luck in your search, Frev

Well done. I can see it now. Very similar names.

May I ask where you got the information about where and when disembarked, and arriving in Qld???

Thanks for your persistance and a great outcome.

Actually, I just thought of something else you may be able to help with.

Grandad was in India when he went onto Reserve circa.1913

I don't know if he went back to England or came straight to Australia from India. I think he most probably came straight from India.

I have not been able to find him on any passenger lists but not sure if I am looking in all the right places.

Janice

[jolman]

Good job Frev !

http://www.murphyswar.com.au/wp-content/uploads/PB0002.jpg

HMAT60 AENEAS

Thanks for the link.

Another piece in my puzzle.

[frev]

May I ask where you got the information about where and when disembarked, and arriving in Qld???

I have not been able to find him on any passenger lists but not sure if I am looking in all the right places.

Two of the many newspaper reports about the Aeneas:

Arrived Melb: http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/202443151

Arrived Qld: http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/220517580

Afraid the only possibilities I can find on any passenger / crew lists are as below:

An E.P. Hole, giving his age as 21 and born London – was listed as serving on the Harflete (of London) as a Mess Room Steward, when it arrived in Sydney 29/1/1914 from Wellington

A Mr E.P. Hole, travelled as a passenger on the Zealandia from Melbourne to Sydney, arriving 16/2/1914

Not much help - unless he perhaps returned to the UK from India - took a position on the Harflete - which went via NZ - jumped ship in Melb - then decided to continue on to Sydney, before eventually ending up in Qld!!!!!

Cheers, Frev

[jolman]

Two of the many newspaper reports about the Aeneas:

Arrived Melb: http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/202443151

Arrived Qld: http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/220517580

Afraid the only possibilities I can find on any passenger / crew lists are as below:

An E.P. Hole, giving his age as 21 and born London – was listed as serving on the Harflete (of London) as a Mess Room Steward, when it arrived in Sydney 29/1/1914 from Wellington

A Mr E.P. Hole, travelled as a passenger on the Zealandia from Melbourne to Sydney, arriving 16/2/1914

Not much help - unless he perhaps returned to the UK from India - took a position on the Harflete - which went via NZ - jumped ship in Melb - then decided to continue on to Sydney, before eventually ending up in Qld!!!!!

Cheers, Frev

I had come across the two E.P. Holes as well. Grandad was born in Sussex 1891, so that rules out one of them. The Zealandia one is more likely but I have no way of knowing for sure. I know he worked on a sheep farm in South Australia before ending up in Qld.

Newspaper articles can be so useful. Thanks for the links regarding the Aeneas.

Grateful for your help.

Janice