Medical Services: Hierarchy of?

[TEW]

Something I think I should know but have got in a muddle trying to work out the hierarchy of Deputies and Deputy’s Assistants, Directors and Director Generals, and their assistants/deputy’s etc.

Until recently I’ve only concerned myself with ADMS diaries as the overseer of the FAs, and the CCSs men were evacuated to. I thought I had that much of the hierarchy established until I found 14 Corps ADMS diary which put my understanding out of kilter. I then noticed it’s mis-described on discovery and is in fact a DDMS diary. It does have ADMS on the front cover but every page is marked DDMS 14th Corps.

I played around with different terms on discovery and now have:

DMS - Director MS – Armies

DGMS - Director General MS – Gen HQ

DDGMS - Deputy Director General MS – Gen HQ

ADDGMS - Assistant Deputy Director General MS – Gen HQ

DDMS - Deputy Director MS - Corps

ADMS - Assistant Director MS - Divisions

DADMS - Deputy Assistant Director MS – Divisions

Do I have them in the correct hierarchy? Some sort of logic tells me that the Director General should be higher up the ladder than the Director and that the Assistant Director should be directly under the Director which I know is not the case.

Thanks

TEW

[BJanman]

Yes, the Director-General is higher up the ladder - in fact he was the man at the very top.

Sir Arthur Thomas Sloggett was the Director-General, Medical Services when war broke out. However, it soon became obvious it was too big a task for one man to oversee everything and so Sloggett became Director-General overseeing the medical services abroad and Sir Alfred Keogh came out of retirement to become Director-General overseeing the medical services at ‘Home’.

The hierarchy was (obviously all Medical Services)

D.G..M.S. = Director-General

D.D.G.M.S. = Deputy Director-General

A.D.G.M.S. = Assistant Deputy Director-General

D.A.D.G.M.S = Deputy Assistant Director-General

D.M.S. = Director

D.D.M.S. = Deputy Director

A.D.M.S = Assistant Director

D.A.D.M.S. Deputy Assistant Director

There were others, i.e. Consulting Physicians/Surgeons to the Force, as well as Inspectors of Medical Services, Directors of Hygiene, Sanitation etc, which were all part of the medical administration. Also, I wouldn’t assume that a D.M.S. would be in charge of 'Armies', as there were also D’s.M.S., Embarkation and Home Forces etc.....

Regards

Barbara

[dazwilson]

TEW,

I agree with Barbara.

The DGMS is the the main man in charge. However he was not only in charge of the Medical Service, he would also have overseen all work by the nursing corps, the veterinary Corps and Dental Corps.

In fact this positions still stands today in the modern army but has had a slight adaptation and now the official oppointment is

Derector General Army Medical Services (DGAMS) - AMS

He in turn has 4 more directors that run each branch of the service on his behalf answering to him and his assistant/deputy

Director Medical services (DMS) - RAMC

Director Army Veterinary Remount Services (DAVRS) - RAVC

Director of the Army Dental Services (DADS) - RADC

Director Army Nursing Services (DANS) - QARANC

[petestarling]

Sorry Daz but you are way out of date. These titles have now gone, there is no DG and for instance the former DANS is now Chief Nurse Army. In world war one they had no juristriction over the AVC.

Pete

[dazwilson]

Sorry Daz but you are way out of date. These titles have now gone, there is no DG and for instance the former DANS is now Chief Nurse Army. In world war one they had no juristriction over the AVC.

Pete

Pete,

the titles I was referring to are the modern day titles of the directors. Which are still in use. I have not came across the deputy med corps, or director dental or nursing. But have in fact met the Director General Army Medical Service. And my corps director is Colonel Douglas Mcdonald Late RAVC, Queens Honerary Veterinary Surgeon, Director Army Veterinary and Remount Service

During ww1 each individual unit of the AVC had a Deputy Director in charge usually holding the rank of major

Daz

[Chris Best]

Daz, with respect, I'm pretty sure Pete's right.  Over the last few years the appointment of 'Director' has disappeared from all Arms and Services.

 

[dazwilson]

On Saturday, June 18, 2016 at 00:42, Chris Best said:

Daz, with respect, I'm pretty sure Pete's right.  Over the last few years the appointment of 'Director' has disappeared from all Arms and Services.

 

With respect, I'm pretty sure their is the Director General Army Medical Services and a Director Army Veterinary Remount Service, I am currently working with in the AMS and both DAVRS and DGAMS have visited my unit recently, 

 

Attached is a screen shot from https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/27351/20101118_land_staff_dataset.csv/preview showing all directing staff in the army, although this was published in 2010 is slightly outdated now as DAVRS is currently a Colonel.

 

 

I hope this clears up the matter as for the iif directing staff are still currently in service.

[petestarling]

Daz

Having been the director of the AMS museum for more years than I care to remember, I know I am right. I spoke at the final dinner that marked the leaving of the last DG and the downgrading of the post and the fact there is no longer an AMD. It is now HQ AMS. Yesterday at RAMC Corps day the Colonel Commandant informed those gathered that there was no longer a DGMS and introduced the head of the RAMC a Brigadier. I visit Camberley regularly so regard myself as up to speed. RAVC Reg Sec is a very good friend of mine.

Perhaps we should not use this forum to discuss further current AMS but concentrate on the First World War.

[dazwilson]

Pete, 

 

Fair enough  that must be a recent change and has not yet filtered down, I take your point and that's that