Perth Digger Posted 19 May , 2016 Share Posted 19 May , 2016 In a thread a couple of years ago there is an account of Lt GO Birch, 2nd Welsh regiment, being killed while using his sword in combat on the Aisle on 14 September 1914. Is this the last example of a BEF infantry officer actually using a sword in a fight? Many officers still carried their swords thereafter, but this is the last account I can find of one actually using it to kill or maim. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 19 May , 2016 Share Posted 19 May , 2016 I've cheated, Googled and found this webpage Note the reference to Bernard Montgomery's sword. I suspect that swords and sabres were drawn and flourished for a while after 1914, but perhaps seldom "used" in the sense of their owners employing them to fight. Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Feledziak Posted 19 May , 2016 Share Posted 19 May , 2016 Here is an account of a sword incident taken from the below link. http://www.1914-1918...soldiers-diary/ “This sword, belonged to an officer of a Saxon Regiment, who was killed on 21st October , 1914, in front of Chapelle d’Armentieres, north of the Armentieres-Lille Road. The trenches on our left had been lost, and, during the night our line was heavily attacked, and a considerable number of Germans working round our flanks attempted to surround the left sentry group of our outpost line. This was held by a section of “B” Company. The men fought magnificently, and drove the enemy off, killing 14 of them, and the Saxon Officer who led the charge on the trench was bayonetted in the throat by No. 6920 Private Nuttall, but at the same time he cut down Private Nuttall with his sword. This is a very fine example of the excellent state of discipline in the Regiment, and the determination of all ranks to hold their positions at all costs.” The 1st North Staffords suffered thirteen casualties on 21 October 1914, but James Nuttall was the only soldier to be killed. His sister received a letter informing her that James had been buried close to where he was killed, but his remains were not located after the war. He is therefore commemorated on Panel 8 of the Ploegsteert Memorial. James is also remembered on the war memorial at Uttoxeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 19 May , 2016 Share Posted 19 May , 2016 There were cavalry charges, presumably with at least some drawn swords, in Egypt and Palestine throughout the war, and there was also a mounted action at (I think) Epehy in France in 1918 involving Indian cavalry. Ron Edit: Sorry, I see that you were referring specifically to infantry officers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perth Digger Posted 19 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2016 Thanks, everyone. I would expect a few examples from Ypres, but it is interesting that the latest is a German example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechhill Posted 19 May , 2016 Share Posted 19 May , 2016 "... the Saxon Officer who led the charge on the trench was bayonetted in the throat by No. 6920 Private Nuttall, but at the same time he cut down Private Nuttall with his sword" That one sent chills up my spine (and a few other places). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perth Digger Posted 19 May , 2016 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2016 It could have been on a Napoleonic battlefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Feledziak Posted 13 June , 2017 Share Posted 13 June , 2017 (edited) From page 40 of "The German 66th Regiment in the First World War." Le Cateau 26th August 1914 Capt BONSAC was killed letting the same sabre fall that his Father carried when he was killed leading IR77 at Beaumont. (1870) So it would appear that in the early stages of the great war Captain BONSAC was leading IR66 into battle with his Fathers Sabre. His Father had been killed in the Franco Prussian war and now history would repeat. Edited 13 June , 2017 by Martin Feledziak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James A Pratt III Posted 16 June , 2017 Share Posted 16 June , 2017 At the battle of Tannenberg a german Infantry officer and a Russian Infantry officer went at each other with swords. The German killed the Russian but was killed soon afterwards i believe by rifle fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perth Digger Posted 17 June , 2017 Author Share Posted 17 June , 2017 Thanks Martin and James. A few days ago I came across an account of a company of Royal West Kents who were cut off in 1917. At night they charged across a trench to escape and it was said that a German officer was carrying a sword when shot. I think that in the darkness and confusion they probably saw a rifle with bayonet attached, not a sword. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 17 June , 2017 Share Posted 17 June , 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Perth Digger said: ... in 1917. ... they probably saw a rifle with bayonet attached, not a sword. ... Almost certainly. A directive was issued in mid/late 1915 (IIRC) that German front line officers were not to carry swords but an S.98/05 instead, although many carried a kS.98 or 71/84 or 84/98 instead. There was a follow up directive in late 1917 (again, IIRC), that all officers - including the higher-ups in the Etappe - were to cease wearing these. I can check the reference if you want! Edited 17 June , 2017 by trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perth Digger Posted 18 June , 2017 Author Share Posted 18 June , 2017 Thanks Trajan, but there's no need. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loader Posted 19 June , 2017 Share Posted 19 June , 2017 Just an observation. If Capt. BONSAC's father was kia in 1870, then the Capt would have been at least 44 yrs old when he was killed in 1914. He was no novice that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James A Pratt III Posted 20 June , 2017 Share Posted 20 June , 2017 I would like to point out that in 1914 Captains in their 40s was not unusual in many armies of the time . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Feledziak Posted 21 June , 2017 Share Posted 21 June , 2017 (edited) On 2017-6-19 at 01:36, Loader said: Just an observation. If Capt. BONSAC's father was kia in 1870, then the Capt would have been at least 44 yrs old when he was killed in 1914. He was no novice that's for sure. 20 hours ago, James A Pratt III said: I would like to point out that in 1914 Captains in their 40s was not unusual in many armies of the time . I found this image today which I imagine comes from the regimental history of IR66. Captain BONSAC. Looks like killed in action 26.08.1914 - which was Le Cateau. http://f15919.nexusboard.de/t89f14-Magdeburgisches-Infanterie-Regiment-Nr-3.html Magado-2 Unless otherwise stated, then collection / property Magado images / contributions may be used "non- commercial ". Edited 21 June , 2017 by Martin Feledziak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 21 June , 2017 Share Posted 21 June , 2017 On 6/19/2017 at 03:36, Loader said: ... If Capt. BONSAC's father was kia in 1870, then the Capt would have been at least 44 yrs old when he was killed in 1914. ... 21 hours ago, James A Pratt III said: I would like to point out that in 1914 Captains in their 40s was not unusual in many armies of the time . 40 minutes ago, Martin Feledziak said: ... Captain BONSAC. Looks like killed in action 26.08.1914 - which was Le Cateau. http://f15919.nexusboard.de/t89f14-Magdeburgisches-Infanterie-Regiment-Nr-3.html Magado-2 Unless otherwise stated, then collection / property Magado images / contributions may be used "non- commercial ". And he certainly looks to be a - shal we say? - mature chap, remembering of course that today's 40's are...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Feledziak Posted 21 June , 2017 Share Posted 21 June , 2017 (edited) Here are some other notes. Here is Captain BONSAC - rests at Le Cateau http://www.volksbund.de/graebersuche/detailansicht.html?tx_igverlustsuche_pi2[gid]=1cb7b5b4a49e7d60f5c880c6930b3609&cHash=fce3cd9b0a52df8a14aa104982a4a67a And his Father Here is the other Captain BONSAC - Beaumont - It does not say where he is at rest. http://www.volksbund.de/graebersuche/detailansicht.html?tx_igverlustsuche_pi2[gid]=aae79f59a1a987bd98189a1ac55478cd&cHash=293be4f64a4a6544a4e190f6473360a5 Edited 21 June , 2017 by Martin Feledziak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 21 June , 2017 Share Posted 21 June , 2017 On 13/06/2017 at 18:14, Martin Feledziak said: Capt BONSAC was killed letting the same sabre fall that his Father carried when he was killed leading IR77 at Beaumont. (1870) Like his son, Bonsac senior was also in the 66th, not the 77th (The 77th wasn't at Beaumont anyway) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Feledziak Posted 21 June , 2017 Share Posted 21 June , 2017 (edited) 59 minutes ago, CROONAERT said: Like his son, Bonsac senior was also in the 66th, not the 77th (The 77th wasn't at Beaumont anyway) Dave Good spot Dave, it is a typo on page 40. I should have noticed as it mentions a 66 monument at the Beaumont Cemetery in the pre-war introduction at the start of the book. Do you know where the Beaumont cemetery is ? just spotted his name 6th line down on the right tablet in the below image - at Beaumont-en-Argonne http://www.panoramio.com/photo/53848449?source=wapi&referrer=kh.google.com# So Both Bonsac's were Captians with 66 and both died with the very same Sabre in their hands. just 44 years and 126 KM ( as a crow would fly ) divided these events. some history that is. NB - just wondering who has that Sabre now ? Martin Edited 21 June , 2017 by Martin Feledziak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James A Pratt III Posted 21 June , 2017 Share Posted 21 June , 2017 The KUK Armee issued a directive in September 1914 after which Infantry officers started leave their swords behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Feledziak Posted 21 June , 2017 Share Posted 21 June , 2017 (edited) As I recall the sword mentioned in post 3, Saxon officer and James Nutall , now hangs on display in the Staffs museum. it has a lions head with red, ruby type eyes, green, shark skin type grip and a Saxon crest etched on the blade. Made by Eisenhauer or similar. Edited 22 June , 2017 by Martin Feledziak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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