Unusual M1917 scabbard

[msdt]

Picking up on the references above by S>S and Trajan to the MS mark on lockets and chapes on M1917 scabbards (all Jewell products and some Grafton & Knight), let's look at what we now know:

Hiram Percy Maxim filed a patent for the design of the first pattern M1917 scabbard.

Hiram Percy Maxim formed the Maxim Silent Firearms Company.

The Maxim Silent Firearms Company had its first commercial success with the The Maxim Model 1910 silencer. From 1912 the company targetted the military market by silencing the Springfield M1903 rifle, first with the Model 1912 Government Silencer, followed by the Model 15. i.e. the company had expertise in using sheet metal.

The Jewell Belting Company and the Maxim Silent Firearms Company were both based in Hartford, Connecticut.

So there must be a very high probability that MS does indeed stand for Maxim Silent (or Silencer).

Cheers,

Tony

[trajan]

... So there must be a very high probability that MS does indeed stand for Maxim Silent (or Silencer).

Well, there is certainly nothing to go against that conclusion! It is quite interesting, incidentally, to look at the actual patent specification, where it is stated: (lines 8-13) "Recently there has been a change in Federal equipment, the result being that it is exceedingly difficult, if not virtually impossible, to suspend a British scabbard from a United States belt". So, for those of you who did not know it, given that the patent was filed 20 June 1917, there is your terminus ante quem (as we say in the trade!) for the belt change in the US uniform!

BTW, I looked around in the literature available to me for any published support for Frank Trzaska's idea, that MS was for Maxim Silencer, and found nothing - but a Google turned up plenty of references to his idea on multiple sites. It also brought up this, what is, in a sense, a kind of 'P.1913' scabbard after all! Well, the IWM has what they describe as: "Scabbard with integral belt hook for sword bayonet Pattern 1913", made by Jewell and with MS marks on the locket - see: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30001991 Yes, basically a M.1917 scabbard that came with a Remington made P.1913 bayonet... But classed by the IWM as separate from their M.1917 scabbards...

Julian

[msdt]

Hi Julian,

Think the IWM may have screwed up there. Seems to be a standard 1st pattern M1917 scabbard that happens to have a 1913 bayonet in it.

As they say nothing about the bayonet, is it in fact a 1913 taken into US Service? In which case the scabbard would be correct and the issue is how do you describe the bayonet - a P1913 or M1917?

Cheers,

Tony

[trajan]

... Think the IWM may have screwed up there. Seems to be a standard 1st pattern M1917 scabbard that happens to have a 1913 bayonet in it.

Hi Tony,

Oh, I quite agree! That's why I was careful to stress: "...what is, in a sense, a kind of 'P.1913' scabbard" and "Yes, basically a M.1917 scabbard that came with a Remington made P.1913 bayonet..."

Julian

[msdt]

Had a good look over the weekend at the bayonet in the 'Unusual M1917 scabbard', and am pretty certain it is a genuine Winchester. In particular it has the Winchester 'smiley' Ordnance Dept grenade, and the Winchester style inspector's mark. See below.

Re the scabbard, still amazed at how well it is made for a reproduction. Rugged enough for military service.

Have posted an example of the Remington inspection and Ordnance marks at the bottom for comparison.

Cheers,

Tony

[shippingsteel]

I agree Tony, the bayonet itself looks to be OK to me. (Well, as sure as you can be without handling the thing, at least)

Cheers, S>S