Guest winstonsmith Posted 30 November , 2004 Share Posted 30 November , 2004 Hello does anyone have access to the enlistment rolls of the East Lancashire Regt during the war? I'm trying to find the enlistment date for Private John Harry Pate 37638. I know he enlisted at Burnley but don't know the year or month. I'd be very grateful for any information on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 30 November , 2004 Share Posted 30 November , 2004 After 1916,it looks like a Derby scheme Number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 30 November , 2004 Share Posted 30 November , 2004 Do you know his battalion? It's almost impossible to tell off his number alone (though the guy with the number next to his was in the 8th Bn, and also enlisted in Burnley - this chap was KIA in July 1917) as this sequence of numbers seems to be spread out between the 1st and the 11th Battalions. It is a "later" number though and probably a mid to late 1916 enlistment. The first East Lancs soldier to die with a similar number was killed in April 1917 and all the "similar number" casualties died 1917 or 1918. Hope this is of some help. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest winstonsmith Posted 1 December , 2004 Share Posted 1 December , 2004 Thanks, both of you, for the replies. Dave, I know he ended up in the 8th Bn of the MGC and was killed 1/4/1918. I was under the impression he was in the 2nd Bn of the East Lancs but I can't remember what I was basing that on. Do you happen to know the name of the other chap with the similar number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 1 December , 2004 Share Posted 1 December , 2004 I was under the impression he was in the 2nd Bn of the East Lancs but I can't remember what I was basing that on. Do you happen to know the name of the other chap with the similar number? He might well have been in the 2nd Bn. As I said, we can't learn much from his number here. The other soldier was 37639 Pte. Robert Ashworth of the 8/ELR. He was KIA on 31st July 1917 between "Bee Farm" and "July Farm" 3/4 of a mile or so east of Wijtschaete. There might be an obituary for your man in the "Burnley Express" some time in April 1918 seeing as he was born in Padiham. This would probably give details of his past service and life. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest winstonsmith Posted 1 December , 2004 Share Posted 1 December , 2004 Thanks again Dave. Unfortunately I'm in Melbourne so it's hard to get access to sources like the Burnley papers. I'll keep trying though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 2 December , 2004 Share Posted 2 December , 2004 Unfortunately I'm in Melbourne so it's hard to get access to sources like the Burnley papers. I suppose it is!!! I've written down the details. I'll have a look next time I'm in Burnley library , where the Express archives are held (shouldn't be too long, seeing as I only live 3 miles from it, but I'm pretty busy at the moment - bear with me on this one.) Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest winstonsmith Posted 2 December , 2004 Share Posted 2 December , 2004 Wow thanks Dave I really appreciate the offer. Always nice to chat to someone from the Burnley/ Padiham area. I was born in Sydney but Padiham will always be 'Home'. Anything you can turn up would be greatfuly received. No one in our family even has a photograph of John Harry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred W Posted 2 December , 2004 Share Posted 2 December , 2004 I have had a quick look through the Burnley Express for April, May and June 1918 without finding mention of John Harry Pate. However, in the issue for 18 May 1918 I found the following. Pte Tom Pate 240739 East Lancashire Territorials, whose wife resides at 9 Hambledon St Padiham, was wounded and taken prisoner 21 March 1918. He is aged 40 and joined at the outbreak of the war. This is probably the elder brother of John Harry, since his age fits in with him being 23 in the 1901 census, when John Harry is given as 13. There is a photo of Tom in the paper. Hope this helps. Just because I didn't find John Harry doesn't mean he is not there. I might have missed him or he could be in a later edition. It was a very busy time with lots of casualties to mention. I will have another look wnen I have some more time. Fred W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest winstonsmith Posted 2 December , 2004 Share Posted 2 December , 2004 Grief! We didn't even know that Tom was in the army. Thank you Fred that's increadible. You're right about it being a busy time I guess it might have taken up to a couple of months for all the casualties from that particular series of engagements to be recorded. Thanks again for that valuable peice of information. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest winstonsmith Posted 3 December , 2004 Share Posted 3 December , 2004 By the way Fred I was wondering about that picture of Tom Pate. Is it in a format that can be copied? If so, it would really mean a lot to me to get hold of a copy. My family have no pictures from that time at all. If it is a possibility I'd really appreciate it. it's a bit of an ask I know but I'd be happy to compensate you for any expenses incured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred W Posted 3 December , 2004 Share Posted 3 December , 2004 Winston, I'll see what I can do. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred W Posted 4 December , 2004 Share Posted 4 December , 2004 Winston, Did John Harry and Tom Pate have a relative called Wilf The reason I am asking is that I am reading a book called "The Long March" by Jack Horsfall. The story of "Devils Own" B/210 Burnley Battery Royal Field Artillery 1914-1919. In it it mentions a Wilf Pate from Padiham, who, by the way, was awarded the MM. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest winstonsmith Posted 4 December , 2004 Share Posted 4 December , 2004 Hi Fred he certainly would have been related in some way. All the Lancashire Pates are one family. I'm presently trying to track down as many as I can. I hadn't known about Wilf so again I'm very grateful for the heads up. I just discovered another one on the Menin Gate Private Walter Pate 28547 of the East Lancs who was killed 31 july 1917. More research to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred W Posted 6 December , 2004 Share Posted 6 December , 2004 From The Burnley Express 4 Sept 1918, page 3 j_h_pate.pspimage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred W Posted 6 December , 2004 Share Posted 6 December , 2004 The picture didn,t come through very good, but the info is that John Harry was a reservist and 30 years of age when war was declared, in camp at Workington. He served three periods in France. Twice he was sent to hospital in England with frost-bitten feet. On August 24th 1915 he received his discharge as a time expired man. Then he settled down as a weaver at Messrs. Catlow,s Orchard Mill, Padiham, but on February 23rd 1917 he re-enlisted, and was soon again in France He was identified with the local Unitarian Chapel. His brother Pte Tom Pate is a prisoner of war in Germany, while another brother Pte Wm Pate is in the RGA. Heleft a widow and four children. According to The Burnley Express 3 Oct 1917, page 3, Wilf Pate was awarded the MM for carrying to safety a live bomb which had droppoed on an ammunition waggon. Fred W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest winstonsmith Posted 7 December , 2004 Share Posted 7 December , 2004 Fred I can't thank you enough for this wonderful piece of information. Unfortunately I was unable to view the image as my computer didn't recognise the program. The facts you have discovered, though, more than make up for it. If there was any expense in getting this please email me personally and I'll arrange to repay you. Again, thank you so much. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest winstonsmith Posted 8 December , 2004 Share Posted 8 December , 2004 Fred pardon my ignorance but what is the RGA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred W Posted 8 December , 2004 Share Posted 8 December , 2004 Royal Garrison Artillery Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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