MIDDLEBROOK'S "FIRST DAY"- PATRICK O'MAHONEY

[Guest]

1st July sees the centenary of the worst day in British military history, if not British History full stop. I am fortunate here in the east of London as one of those who will be featured is a local casualty- Captain Charles Campbell May, 22nd Manchesters-his diary has been published, he has featured in BBC remembrance documentaries before. Lived in Wanstead during the war-and the family grave and a memorial to him lie unnoticed in the overgrown churchyard of St. Marys Wanstead (Very poignantly, close to a memorial to the 6 members of the Wanstead Cricket Club killed in the war-the cricket club is next door and the memorial is at the closest point to the pitch). Wanstead was also the home for many years to Captain Chares Stanley Pearce of the Surreys, killed alongside Billy Nevill and the footballs.

So here is the rub- 1.July will be a poignant day. My local papers and societies want stuff. I look at Middlebrook's First Day and wonder why the Somme ineterview archives are not digitised-(and the same for the Macdonald stuff). Middlebrook listed where the survivors were living- the stories are recorded,the local links known,the archive at the IWM-and then a full stop.

My query is this- Middlebrook thanks a chap called Patrick Mahoney, of Chadwell Heath (which is about 2 miles from where I am sitting and in the same local authority area) Would anyone know what became of him or of any materials he may have collected???????

(I note there is a deceased Patrick O'Mahoney listed for estate with the Treasury Solicitor)

Hope he is alive and kicking, if not then any information might help.

Thanks Mike

[David Filsell]

I was told by one of the original researchers for Macdonald that she has barred any access to her 'stuff, others may know better of course.

[rflory]

votaire60 wrote: "1st July sees the centenary of the worst day in British military history, if not British History full stop."

At least an arguable statement with numerous contenders such as "Yorktown" (or any other defeat that led to the loss of British America); the day that India became independent; the day the English Civil War began; etc.

[Stoppage Drill]

Middlebrook singles Mahoney out as primus inter pares in his acknowledgements, and I see that the two collaborated on other books.

Try contacting MM himself, or his publishers, about the present whereabouts of Mahoney, if he is still alive. (It's the best part of half a century since MM was researching and preparing FDOTS).

[Guest]

Stoppage- yes, I will try that-though Middlebrook is a tad elderly. I will try local contacts first. As a bookseller for most of my working life, I know that the most dangerous time for books and documents is immediately after death of the loving owner- any number of horro stories about whats gone in the skip or the landfill.

Still hope someone on the Forum will know

rflory- I note you are in some place called "California"- Which one is it? the lovely, fantastic California Cross in the South Hams of south Devon..... or that vulgar one the other side of the Rockies???

Just kidding- BUT remember that there are those who think that getting rid of the American colonies was the best thing that the Brits ever did.!!!!!!!

By the way, I have some artillery officers for the Roll of Honour for Wanstead in the east of London -Just written one up- 2LT Benjamin Godlonton Hill, MC- if you would like the entry-or any future ones-I am happy to zap it across to the Colonies,sorry California

Mike

[Zeb]

Has anyone ever contacted Martin Middlebrook before?

Zeb

[Guest]

^{Answering my own question. Patrick Mahoney died in October 2015, in Chadwell heath-residential home. Trying to contact executor solicitoors for info.}

^{Let folks know how I get on.}

^Mike

[Guest]

    Just an update on this little thread, following on from the features on BBC News (today, 16th November 2016)  relating to a donation of letters to IWM-and interview with lady from IWM.  Personally, I think it was a little misleading to hike this up as something new - as if a treasure trove had just appeared out of nowhere.  The name of Martin Midlebrook has not been mentioned at all- despite showing pictures of some of the accounts on paper with a large heading at the top-"First Day on the Somme".

     It may well be that IWM now has these letters ouright-but whatever the cause of the delay it is ungracious that MMs work is not clearly recognised (Unless he has asked for his name not to be used, which might well be part of the deal) He had the gumption to go out and collect the stuff in the first place.

 

             The original reason for posting this thread was the search for any materials gathered by Mr. Patrick Mahoney, who is thanked by MM for his help. (Apologies to his memory in making him an "O'Mahoney by mistake). Alas, Mr. Mahoney died locally to me in October 2015- in a care home in the northern part of Chadwell Heath -and he was unknown to the current generation of local studies staff in this and the immediate surrounding boroughs.

    I regret to say that in an effort to find out if he held any interview material, I contacted the probate solicitors, who have been "professional" enough thus far not to bother replying. Mr. Mahoney seems to have died without known family- It would be a reassurance to know what happened to his own books and papers. Would any Forum member be able to update??

 

[John_Hartley]

Mike

 

When I started to seriously research 17th Manchesters back in the late 1990s, I wrote to MM to ask if I could use the information he'd collected. He wrote back confirming that I could and directed me on to somone who now held all the original research notes of the interviews etc. I don't recall that man's name but presume it was Mahoney. Whoever it was sent me photocopies (in return for a voluntary donation to the Star & Garter.).

 

In more recent times, I've researched the Liddle Collection at Leeds University and have come across what I think they call the "Middlebrook papers" (or similar). The files contain some original research (although I don't think the 17th Manchester things that I have copies of are there) but my thoughts are that they don't hold enough for it to be all of MMs stuff. Suggest making contact with them to check. By the by, I've never come across MMs stuff at IWM.

[Guest]

   John- Thank you very much for your helpful response-  What I must do is chase down the care home he was in (Perhaps they will take me in-I feel a bit old and knackered). As it is, I read with interest on Tinternet an account given by MM of how he wrote FDOS ,which mentions Mahoney. -Suggests that Mahoney was an enthusiast  and likely to have collected materials.

    Alas, our former local studies librarian from the 1966 time also died at about the same time as Mahoney- indeed,must have lived but a few minutes walk away. But that is Sods Law. Neither of the 2 most likely local studies libraries - Redbridge and Barking and Dagenham have any information.

    I must presume the stuff a) Has existed  continues to exist- but I fear the worst.

As Mahoney did some of the donkey work interviews for MM in London, I wanted to track it own to see if he held anything else relating to local casualties.

    I will have another crack at this- As a bookseller, I fear the worst- what goes in the bin at a person's death would give you nightmares. 

     My one concern about this thread is-Surely someone on this Forum must have known Mr. Mahoney???

[8055Bell]

I'm champing at the bit here!  Pte A A Bell was interviewed before the 1st Day and quoted in it.  John has a copy of his notes for MM and IWM already have a later recording, but I've always thought there was another recording with MM or Patrick Mahoney.  Just imagine how extensive this lot may be!

 

I can go to IWM as I have a day off for my wife's birthday.  I may pop in!

[Guest]

8055- Surely your Missus would want something better for her birthday than a trip to IWM- (It reminds me of the old joke about the tightfistedness of Yorkshiremen-Yorkshireman wins the  National Lottery- Tells his wife "Ive won £10 million ont lottery-get your coat on lass!  She replies- "ooh are we going out for a slap-up meal to celebrate?     "No lass, Im off down the pub with the lads-but Im switching the central heating off when I go!)

    Seriously, this is getting worrying- Yours is the first real indication that Mahoney had a trove.

Back to you later in the day

 

PS- At least buy her a slice of cake in the IWM caff

[8055Bell]

I am tight fisted and grew up in Yorkshire but I'm also taking her to the O2 for the tennis.  Goes against the grain.  I know.

 

I wish IWM would give us a press release.

[Guest]

     IWM- not open or answering as yet.  Mr. Mahoney had a brother/nephew who took away his effects from a local care home at his demise-  If all else fails, then a letter via care home may be the only way forward. Staff there are helpful-say Mr. Mahoney was sparky and individualist but they must respect confidentiality- which is fine by me-correct proper but sill helpful.

[paulgranger]

Adding nothing useful to this thread, except that Patrick was noted by Martin as his gofer in London, and is credited as co-author of the book on the sinking of the Prince of Wales and Repulse. I had thought he was also co-author of the Bomber Command War Diaries book, but that honour belongs to Chris Everitt.

 

Regarding the item on BBC News this morning, it was clear to those who know where the documents came from, but as said, no mention of Martin Middlebrook was made. He is, however, referenced in the article on the BBC News website about the letters.

[Guest]

Paul- Yes- the detail of the story is interesting-that the letters were acquired from a service charity. So good on Martin Middlebrook for that

[Guest]

  Just called the IWM.  A short and robust conversation. Siwichboard operator says it is not possible to speak to anyone as it is their policy that enquiries must come in by mail, preferably e-mail. (Question from Your Humble:"Whats the point of having a phone number then?)   I have now just lost all faith and confidence in this self-serving administrative nightmare of an institution.  As far as Im concerned, it is just so unhelpful and so bloody minded that I will steer clear of it altogether. Anything I write up for local casualties for Lives of the First World War?- Not a hope-it would go in the bin as a preference.

     Accumulated a few bits and pieces of original correspondence-some original,some copies- Now- Not IWM-Anywhere but.

A mindset of self-serving jobsworth. Thought it was fishy this morning when what it was telling the BBC and the papers  was a bit of a false story- Not a treasure trove out of the blue but something known about for decades-  And if Im p******d  off, then why is it that Middlebrook hadnt deposited the stuff years ago_ Or,as per this thread, Macdonald also.

     The sooner its Library and Archives gets shut down and transferred (to NAM when it reopens or KCL)  -the better. Put it out of its misery. It not fit for purpose and there is no point looking benignly upon it-its out to serve itself and no-one else.

    I have commented on this Forum about the lack of helpfulness of IWM to all those doing any form of local studies-  Look at National LIbrary of Scotland- just about all known memorial books digitised as well as Army/Navy/RAF lists.. And a steer from a Forum member that a series of important books about the war at sea(Admiralty Staff histories) have been digitised - by the Australian War Memorial!!

   Just look at all the enquiries on this Forum from good-hearted folk doing a bit on their ancestors- the innumerable requests for information-and good on the members of this Forum for their good cheer and help - But it does show that IWM has been woefully lacking in doing anything to help ordinary folk. Lives of the First World War???  Tee,hee,hee-Lets just reconfigure CWGC, lets the mugs do all the work without any help from us, and,Hey Presto, we get all the Brownie Points.

    Oh no you dont.

 

[9.5mm]

3 hours ago, voltaire60 said:

Paul- Yes- the detail of the story is interesting-that the letters were acquired from a service charity. So good on Martin Middlebrook for that

 

Martin Middlebrook gave these personal testimonies from The First Day on the Somme and The Kaiser’s Battle, to Dr Ross Davies in the mid-90s. It was Ross Davies, via the Felix Fund that then donated them to the IWM . The gift was part of a fund-raising exercise in memory of Holly Davies, Chief Executive of Felix Fund until her death in 2014.

 

More info here: http://www.felixfund.org.uk/2016/10/31/25000-donation-holly-angharad-davies-contingency-fund/

[Derek Black]

1 hour ago, 9.5mm said:

 

Martin Middlebrook gave these personal testimonies from The First Day on the Somme and The Kaiser’s Battle, to Dr Ross Davies in the mid-90s. It was Ross Davies, via the Felix Fund that then donated them to the IWM . The gift was part of a fund-raising exercise in memory of Holly Davies, Chief Executive of Felix Fund until her death in 2014.

 

More info here: http://www.felixfund.org.uk/2016/10/31/25000-donation-holly-angharad-davies-contingency-fund/

Thanks for that.

 

Derek.

[paulgranger]

Yes, that is interesting info.