Captain with Brig. Gen. J. F. Riddell

[laughton]

This Captain of the Northumberland Fusiliers would have been with Brigadier General James Foster Riddell when he was KIA on 26 April 1915 at grid location 28.I.5.c.5.8 which would be on Cambridge Road about 2,500 yards east of Ypres on the road to Frezenberg.

If it is one star for the other Officer it was a 2nd Lieutenant unless he too had been promoted to Lieutenant like Kipling!!

[MelPack]

Richard

You are unlikely to get very far with that one.

The unidentified NF Captain is one of two brothers killed on the same day:

Rank: Captain Howard Tomlin Hunter
Date of Death: 26/04/1915
Age: 26
Regiment/Service: Northumberland Fusilier 6th Bn.
Panel Reference: Panel 8 and 12.
Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL
Additional Information: Son of Edward and Anne Cunningham Hunter, of Wentworth, Gosforth, Northumberland. His brother George Edward Hunter also fell.

Rank: Captain George Edward Hunter
Date of Death: 26/04/1915
Age: 28
Regiment/Service: Northumberland Fusiliers 6th Bn.
Panel Reference: Panel 8 and 12.
Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL
Additional Information: Son of Edward and Anne Cunningham Hunter, of Wentworth, Gosforth, Northumberland. His brother Howard Tomlin Hunter also fell.

[David_Underdown]

Another limitation of DNA testing!

[laughton]

Is it possible that one of the Captains was and Adjutant etc. to the Brg. Gen. and the other was KIA on the front lines? If he was Canadian, I could look up the war diary but Kew is a stretch for me in the car. There is also the possibility that the two Captains are side by each? Can we find out what happened that day? I see from a few items on the web that he himself was at the front lines

I see it its Brigadier General James Foster Riddell (CWGC page) commanding 149th (1st/1st Northumberland) Inf. Bde. late 2nd/5th Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers. This blog says he fell at the head of the Brigade while leading the attack against St. Julien on 26 April 1915. He was of the "Fighting Fifth", the same as my grandfather Laughton.Elsewhere it says "an eye-witness states that he strolled about under fire as unconcernedly as though in his own garden, no one in fact could have shown a finer example of coolness and high courage". This epitaph says "Four days after the Germans launched their first gas attack on the Western Front the situation outside Ypres was desperate. Newly landed in France, 149 Brigade was rushed up to the front and ordered to make a frontal attack in broad daylight on the village of St Julien. About mid-afternoon General Riddell insisted on going forward to the firing line to see the situation for himself. He was seen conferring with his battalion commanders when he was shot through the head by a sniper". Thew CWGC says casualties for the 149th that day were 42 Officers and 1,1912 ORs KWM.

So it sounds as if it would be difficult to sort out what happened to the two Captains. They were both in the 6th Battalion. Had one been in the 5th, he would have been at Fortuin. What are the odds of two brothers as Captains in the same battalion, killed the same day?

[helpjpl]

6th Battalion The Northumberland Fusiliers War Diary, April 1915 -

April 25: At 9am orders were received to occupy trenches just south of the village. At 10am the battalion (less 2 platoons under Major Hedley which remained where they were) moved to trenches just north of WIELTJE & remained there all day. About 9.30pm the battalion returned to the trenches just south of the village & remained there for the night. During the day these reserve trenches were shelled.

April 26: Remained in the trenches until 1.50pm when orders were received to attack the village of St JULIEN through the lines of trenches held by the 4th Div. At 2pm the attack was launched , the battalion being on the left of the WIELTJE-ST Julien road with its right on the road, attacking in two lines of platoons in fours, A&B coys in front line & C&D in the 2nd line at 50 yds interval & 200 yds distance. Heavy casualties occurred in moving from the trenches south of the village into the attack formation. The battalion advanced about a mile in this formation suffering heavy losses from machine gun, shrapnel & heavy howitzer fire until about 500 yds from the the village where the attack was held up. No reinforcements were available so the line remained there until dusk when it was withdrawn to the trenches held by the 4th Div. About 2am the battalion was withdrawn to the trenches occupied earlier in the day just south of WIELTJE village. Capt. & adj. F.R.I Athill was wounded. For casualties see appendix I.

27 April: Remained in these trenches until 8pm when the battalion was moved to another field which was less shelled & there dug cover. Brig. Gen. J.F. Riddle having been killed on the 26th Brig. Gen. G.P. Feilding took over command of the brigade.

JP

[MelPack]

Another limitation of DNA testing!

The odds are that it is Howard Tomlin who, by the various reports, was killed by machine gun fire. His brother George, by various accounts, was killed by shellfire - hence being recorded as missing on the extract posted by JP.

The circumstantial evidence is fairly strong but does not carry the weight necessary for a positive identification - unless, of course, the Hunters also made exceedingly good cakes.

[laughton]

Which would make Lt. William Black Noble Edward Noel Mather the possible man in Plot 34 Row H Grave 15?

If, the "star" means just that and not "stars".

I note that it says G. E. Hunter was missing on the 27th. Is there any detail that says he was confirmed killed on the 26th?

[MelPack]

Richard

Noble Mather as a 2nd Lieutenant (the rest being Lieutenants) is the only candidate but as you say that is entirely contingent upon whether 'star' means star and not stars.

GE Hunter was definitely KIA on the 26th April - the extract from the Casualty List posted by PJ is just that - the list that forms an Appendix to the Diary entry is enormous and a measure of how badly mauled the Battalion was in its initiation of fire.

Edit: insert the correct name

[nigelcave]

Richard

Noble as a 2nd Lieutenant (the rest being Lieutenants) is the only candidate but as you say that is entirely contingent upon whether 'star' means star and not stars.

GE Hunter was definitely KIA on the 26th April - the extract from the Casualty List posted by PJ is just that - the list that forms an Appendix to the Diary entry is enormous and a measure of how badly mauled the Battalion was in its initiation of fire.

Hmm: I might be missing something, but on the hand written list above Noble is a lieutenant and the only second lieutenant is Mather.

[MelPack]

Nigel

My error - I had assumed that Richard was referring to the only 2nd Lieutenant without a known grave.

I have edited the original post to avoid confusion.

[laughton]

I precipitated the error! Changes noted in my post as well.

[MelPack]

Richard

No,no! I insist mea culpa.