German Alpine Korps. War Diaries

[ulsterlad2]

Hello All.

Are there any forum members out there with access to War Diaries for the German Alpine Korps?

I'm looking for anything recorded about the burial of soldiers from the 78th Bn Winnipeg Grenadiers around 11/12 August 1918 in Hallu.

[fritz]

Where is this location: Hallu?

[ulsterlad2]

Hi Fritz,

It is located southeast of Amiens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallu

[fritz]

Hi,

I checked the history of my Great-Uncle´s Jägerbataillon 10. It belonged to Alpenkorps. But they fought at Hattencourt south of Hallu.

Fritz

[fritz]

Very close to Hallu was Infanterie-Leib-Regiment (Bavarians). They belonged to Alpenkorps too. But I have no infos about this unit.

[fritz]

And this is their Regimental History of WW1

Josef Reiss (Hrsg.): Das k.-b. Infanterie-Leibregiment im Weltkrieg 1914/18. München 1931. (Erinnerungsblätter deutscher Regimenter. bayer. Anteil. Band 7

Their war diaries may be exist. But I have no access, sorry.

Perhaps this forum can help.

http://feldgrau.pytalhost.com/vbulletin/forum.php

Kind regards

Fritz

[ulsterlad2]

Thanks for this info Fritz. I will pass on the unit details. A look at the Infanterie-Leib-Regiment (Bavarians) might yield results.

[ulsterlad2]

And this is their Regimental History of WW1

Josef Reiss (Hrsg.): Das k.-b. Infanterie-Leibregiment im Weltkrieg 1914/18. München 1931. (Erinnerungsblätter deutscher Regimenter. bayer. Anteil. Band 7

Their war diaries may be exist. But I have no access, sorry.

Perhaps this forum can help.

http://feldgrau.pytalhost.com/vbulletin/forum.php

Kind regards

Fritz

That's great Fritz. Thanks again for helping out with this. I'll pass on these details too.

[AOK4]

Hello,

The burying of the dead was usually done under command of the stretcher bearer companies with the help of POWs, Armierungstruppen etc. They reported to the Gräberoffizier of the sector who was responsible for the administration. The original war diaries of these stretcher bearer companies should be found in Munich. They usually do not mention details of who was buried where exactly as this was reported to the Gräberoffizier, although some diaries are remarkably detailed.

I doubt much info will be found in the war diaries of the fighting units, especially as at that point there was fighting going on and they needed as much men at the front as they could gather.

Jan

[ulsterlad2]

Hi Jan.

Thanks a million. Great stuff. I'll pass this info on. Excellent.

[ejwalshe]

Thanks Robert for starting this thread.

I am having a heck of a time navigating this site once again: https://invenio.bundesarchiv.de

Took me a while a few months ago to get an account, now my login does not seem to work once again.

If anyone with access (and reads German much better than I), I would appreciate a search for diaries of the Infanterie-Leib-Regiment (Bavarians) during Aug 11/12, 1917.

Thank you, Ted

[AOK4]

Hello,

The archives of the Infanterie-Leib-Regiment are kept in Munich, not in the Bundesarchiv.

You need to know which company you are looking for as usually there are regimental, battalion and company war diaries.

I doubt a lot of people from this forum go there (apart from me). When I go there, there are usually not a lot of visitors apart from some German genealogists...

Jan

[David Filsell]

Current thinking (not least by Jack Sheldon and by Terence Zuber) seems to be to consider that the published war diaries, which are apparently reasonably available in Germany, can be effectively, treated as primary source material in the absence of original, and largely destroyed, war diaries.You simply! need to be able to read German or get key passages translated.

For information I attach my revue of the English Language of 66th Regiment

A BETTER PERSPECTIVE?

Otto Korfes (Terence Zuber translator)

The German 66th Regiment in the Great War: The German perspective, £20.00 The History Press, Gloucs., 320pp, line drawing ills and selected map sections, index, ISBN 978 0 7509 6200 1

Although Jack Sheldon’s books have revealed the wealth of valuable information available in German Regimental Histories in his book, translations of the German language originals in English remain hens’ teeth rarities. Like the British Jack Sheldon, military historian Terrence Zuber believes them to be extremely important, the American ex soldier rating them as, effectively, primary source material - not least because of the World War 2 and post war destruction German operational archives (outside those of Bavaria, Baden and Würtemberg).

As an historian Zuber is not without critics. Indeed criticism that his opinions never fail to extol the unique excellence of the German Army from top to tail frequently elicited the comment, “Well, if they were so bloody good, then how come they lost the war in debate. Reductio in absurdum? Certainly, but one does often feel inclined to suggest that the author is inclined to bat over zealously for the other side.

Certainly his views, which many judge trumpet the unparalleled excellence of the imperial German army, - have ruffled many British feathers. after all do we not know that the first six divisions of the BEF were "a perfect thing apart". That the Germans using blustering frontal attacks at Mons were slaughtered because of tactical ineptitude and convinced they were facing machine guns and not the '15 aimed rounds a minute'. Well, like much else that we ‘know’ as 'fact’ seems now if not mythical then over egged..

The fact is that the West Virginia based Zuber knows the German army of 1914 - its tactics, strategies and doctrines. Here, in his translation of a German regimental history the author is on safer, less controversial and more welcoming ground. Although I am happy be corrected, Terence Zuber's English regimental history of 3rd Magdeburg Infantry Regiment Number 66 is first publication of an English translation of any such work.

It is likely to be of particular interest to Brits that the 66th served through the war in France and Flanders. The regiment fought the British at Mons, Le Cateau, on the Somme from July 1st until Hebuterne in November, in the German March offensive and during the final ‘100 days’.

Overall the translator regards some German Regimental Histories as “among the best descriptions of tactical combat anywhere at any time”. This volume he judges “ in the upper middle range” of these works. The original work, edited by Otto Korfes is it is 458 pages long – of which 382 describe operations. The translator claims his version is better organised and edited than the original. English translations of these are works - written as remembrance of comrades, colleagues, dead, alive - are rare. German books on the war - novels, diaries, personal accounts - offer writing, views and accounts which have very different texture, feeling, to those of the Brits. Not least the often seem to display greater emotion than the average British ‘regimental’. This does not make them obviously better or worse, but definitely different and hard to define.

This work is heavy on tactics, combat and personal experience and its illustration by Döbrich-Stegliz are a joy. Maps are largely inadequate, though numerous, frequently to small. And it must be said the index is a disgrace for a book of this quality

need to be able to rad German or get passages translated

[AOK4]

It is very dangerous to put too much emphasis on german (published) regimental histories. Some are better than others but all are written to glorify the unit's achievements (just as unit histories of other countries). This has to be taken into account when reading them. They tend to include/exclude details that fit/don't fit into their own view.

Especially histories published after 1930 (until 1945) are to be treated with caution because of the prevailing political ideas in Germany.

I use German regimental histories a lot when writing artciles/books, but one has to be critical and not take everything to be 100% accurate.

I have myself a collection of many hundreds of those German unit histories (only lacking some 250 volumes as far as I know). There isn't a day that I don't go to check something in them.

Jan

[David Filsell]

AOK4 (or may I call you AOK?)

Of course you are right. But what is too much emphasis? I am merely stating the views expressed by Zuber & Jack Sheldon. And when nothing else exists if read around your subject, properly reference and offer clear caveats I see no great problem.

David:)