CROONAERT Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Anyone got any idea what the German held indentation that traverses the Menin Road is on this map from June 1917 (the one immediately North of the "OO" in Hooge). It looks a rather strange shape for a mine crater (I know that sometimes several craters can be linked into one shape on these maps, but this one seems too narrow). A widened trench perhaps (if so- why?). It doesn't appear on the August 1916 version of the same map, but is also there in the April 1917 version. The only thing (apart from a widened trench) that I can think of is that it's several very small mine craters linked together or several very large shell-holes. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brindlerp Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 Interesting. A concentrated trench position facing west-east along the Menin Road. Just guessing, would they be preparing for a possible tank attack from Ypres down the Menin Road? Regards Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 Hello, Just an idea: the Germans mined and exploded several roads, especially the Menin Road, around Ypres to prevent British tanks from using the road to make an attack. Regards, Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky Platteeuw Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 Dave, Another thought. Sources mention the existance of 'Hooge tunnel' which was supposed to be several miles long. One source says that 'the greater part of two miles' was held by the British. This means that the rest was held by the Germans. The round shaped red circle is a mine crater. In comparision the area you indicated is drawn on the map exactly as the mine crater. Which could mean that it was very deep. Conclusion: possibly was this the point in 'Hooge tunnel' were both armies faced each other (????????) or the tunnel was blocked (??????) or were the German position was (???????). Just a thought. Jacky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 Jacky, as far as i understood the tunnel was paralel with the menin road. So i don't think that is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 2 other suggestions: - A dug in mortar battery ?? - A small track station (like the one in the trench of death), but this is most unlikely i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 Hello, I'm quite sure it's the destroyed Menin Road to prevent tanks from using it. The Hooge Tunnel was from Kantientje to the Zandberg in the middle under the Menin Road. It was to enable German troops to go the front without being seen from the Allies. It was not until the fighting in the Summer of 1917 that the British discovered the tunnel and the Germans blew parts of it up. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky Platteeuw Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 Thanks Jan for the clarification. However as you can imagine I have based my thought on a source. It is not in contradiction with what you are saying on the contrary. Looking at it more closely I am now convinced that indeed you are right. The Hooge tunnel (or part of it) was already included in the scheme of evacuation of wounded for the Battle of the Menin Road. It is a pity I can't put the drawing on the net, I promised the owner not to do so. Which means that it was already taken and secured by September 1917. Jacky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 Was there not a moat in this area?? It seems a very large artillery target for a new excavation. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 Hello, I'm quite sure it's the destroyed Menin Road to prevent tanks from using it. The Hooge Tunnel was from Kantientje to the Zandberg in the middle under the Menin Road. It was to enable German troops to go the front without being seen from the Allies. It was not until the fighting in the Summer of 1917 that the British discovered the tunnel and the Germans blew parts of it up. Jan Jan, is that the famous tunnel who starts at "the Charleston" tavern and ends +- Hoge Crater museum?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky Platteeuw Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 This is from an German map from October 1917. The place is well indicated but it seems something similar is just above the mine crater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky Platteeuw Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 Sorry didn't finish my posting. Strange coincidence ? but the southern point seems to match exactly the emplacement of the Hooge Crater Cemetery circle. Could it be the Hooge Crater ?. jacky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 27 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 27 November , 2004 Strange coincidence ? but the southern point seems to match exactly the emplacement of the Hooge Crater Cemetery circle. Could it be the Hooge Crater ?. I don't think so Jacky. Isn't "the" Hooge Crater the one that is clearly defined on my map? The indentations/craters in question aren't (as far as I can see) on the August 1916 map (whereas "the" Hooge Crater was blown in 1915?). Anyway, thanks for all the answers everyone. I'll leave you with a map fragment of the same area in August 1916. Looks like whatever it is was blown between August 1916 and end of March 1917. Cheers, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 28 November , 2004 Share Posted 28 November , 2004 Thanks Jan for the clarification. However as you can imagine I have based my thought on a source. It is not in contradiction with what you are saying on the contrary. Looking at it more closely I am now convinced that indeed you are right. The Hooge tunnel (or part of it) was already included in the scheme of evacuation of wounded for the Battle of the Menin Road. It is a pity I can't put the drawing on the net, I promised the owner not to do so. Which means that it was already taken and secured by September 1917. Jacky Jacky and Kristof, believe me about the Hooge Tunnel. I've encountered a lot of info about it while writing my book about Gheluvelt (there's a chapter about the tunnel in it). I've seen the German maps too. It went from where now the dancing 'Carlton' is (the former German cemetery) to about the turn in the Menin Road (Stock Zandberg). British troops captured the tunnel in 1917 although parts of it were blown up by the Germans (mostly to destroy the Menin Road to prevent tanks from using it). The tunnel did have lots of exits with bunkers so several parts could still be used by the British. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky Platteeuw Posted 28 November , 2004 Share Posted 28 November , 2004 I believe you Jan no problem Just the coincidence and shape made me wonder. However just a few seconds !!! Jacky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Burgoyne Posted 28 November , 2004 Share Posted 28 November , 2004 Hi Jan It was not until the fighting in the Summer of 1917 that the British discovered the tunnel and the Germans blew parts of it up. Hope you do not mind me pointing out that the British know about this tunnel back in August 1915, thats as along as we are talking about the same tunnel ? Before the 6th Divisions attack on 9-8-15 to re-capture Hooge, patrols were sent out to reconnaissance area to be attacked. A report for the 2/D.L.I. states that trench G7 west of Tunnel House goes into a tunnel as do the last few yards of The Strand. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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