Two men have disappeared

[temptage]

This one is confusing me.

I have been researching about the whereabouts of the 1st North Staffs Regiment on 31/7/17. I have all the details now but the details on this form have thrown me.

It shows details of the exhumation of 4 bodies all buried/found at 28.i.30.d.9.2, but one, Private Teesdales's body, could not be found even though he was originally registered as being buried/found there due to his disc being found. I notice that under his name it doesnt say 'Killed in action 31/7/17, like it does on the other 3, BUT they have him as allocated a grave, 2. J. 40 at Perth China Wall Cemetery along side the other 3. Now the odd thing is that there is no listing of a Private Teesdale who died as a member of the North Staffs Regiment anywhere, nor is there a Teesdale died on any date in the few days either side of the official date of death. I even looked on Ancestry and couldnt find details that tally. Anyone got an idea on that one?

The other thing that has thrown me is that all 4 men were allegedly laid to rest in 4 graves next to each other 2. J. 37 to 2. J. 40, but you will also see that the grave that Teesdale was supposed to be in has the body of a Private E Turner of the Sherwood Foresters buried there instead. Thats not the problem!!!

The problem is a certain Private Woolridge seems to have gone missing from the names on the graves. All the details have been filled in on the form above (KIA date and Regiment) and also shows that effects were forwarded to the base along with the fact that the body had an identifiable disc on it when found, and yet looking on the CWGC website there is no mention of him in between Richardson and Gilbert. In fact there is no mention of him whatsoever on the CWGC website! It seems that 2.J.39 has an unknown soldier headstone. The form above dated 8/4/19 was rechecked on 9/2/22 and as no details have been changed on the form I am guessing that all details were double checked and were correct including the new location of the aforementioned Private Woolridge. Could it be that we have a name for a soldier buried as an 'unknown' who has been known all along, but not recognised by the CWGC?

Can someone please take over scratching my head for me please.

[ss002d6252]

The soldiers effects records only have 1 Woolridge for the North Staffs - died in India in Oct 18.

It looks to me like they've taken partial details from the memorial cross and tried to fill in the missing details.

Craig

[ss002d6252]

There was a David Thomas Wooldridge of the Grenadier Guards killed on 31/7/17 - where they in the same area as the North Staffs ?.

Craig

[roughdiamond]

Gilbert and Richardson are both 1st Bn North Staffs, there is a MIC for a 1914 Star trio for 6079 Pte Daniel Woolridge North Staffs, there's also another for him for the 14 Star only as D Wooldridge 1st Bn North Staffs, did this man survive?

Sam

[KevinBattle]

It states there were 4 Names as detailed on one Memorial Cross, 3 identity discs were found but no remains for a 4th, just his Name on the Cross.

Presumably there were clearly only 3 sets of remains, matching the 3 discs.

TEASDALE, ARTHUR. Rank: Private. Service No: 7602. Date of Death: 31/07/1917.

Regiment/Service: North Staffordshire Regiment 1st Bn.

Panel Reference: Panel 55. Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL.

Maybe CWGC could answer as to why a "Known" man has an Unknown Grave...?

The cemetery was a front line cemetery but at the Armistice only had about 130 burials, as per CWGC info

The cemetery was begun by French troops in November 1914 (the French graves were removed after the Armistice) and adopted by the 2nd Scottish Rifles in June 1917. It was called Perth (as the predecessors of the 2nd Scottish Rifles were raised in Perth), China Wall (from the communication trench known as the Great Wall of China), or Halfway House Cemetery. The cemetery was used for front line burials until October 1917 when it occupied about half of the present Plot I and contained 130 graves. It was not used again until after the Armistice, when graves were brought in from the battlefields around Ypres and from the following smaller cemeteries:-

BECELAERE GERMAN CEMETERY No.1 (246th RESERVE INFANTRY REGIMENT), close to Becelaere Church, contained about 500 German and two British burials.

BELGIAN CHATEAU CEMETERY, VLAMERTINGHE, in the grounds of a chateau 2 Kms South-West of Ypres. It contained the graves of 12 soldiers from the United Kingdom, 11 from Canada, and one French soldier, dating from 1914 to 1917.

BROODSEINDE GERMAN CEMETERIES, ZONNEBEKE. These contained the graves of 27 British soldiers, who fell mainly in 1914. Broodseinde gave its name to the Battle of the 4th October 1917; and the Memorial of the 7th Division, which fought here in 1914 and 1917, is a little South of the hamlet on the road to Becelaere.

DURHAM CEMETERY, ZILLEBEKE, at the North end of the village, was used from December 1915 to March 1916. It contained the graves of 52 soldiers from the United Kingdom, 39 of whom belonged to Territorial battalions of the Durham Light Infantry.

GARTER POINT CEMETERY, ZONNEBEKE, on the road from Zonnebeke to Westhoek, was used from September 1917 to April 1918, and contained the graves of 19 soldiers from Australia, eight from the United Kingdom, one from New Zealand, three of unknown units, and one German.

GORDON HOUSE CEMETERY No.2, ZILLEBEKE, at Gordon House, contained the graves of 30 soldiers from the United Kingdom who fell in 1915 and 1917.

HANS KIRCHNER GERMAN CEMETERY, POELCAPELLE, 1.6 Kms South-East of Poelcapelle village, contained the graves of four soldiers from the United Kingdom who fell in October 1914.

HOUTHULST GERMAN CEMETERY, at the East end of the village, contained the graves of about 1,000 German soldiers and one R.F.C. Officer.

KEERSELAERE WEST GERMAN CEMETERY, LANGEMARCK, a little West of the Zonnebeke-Langemarck road, contained the graves of 29 soldiers from the United Kingdom who fell mainly in October 1914.

KEERSELAERHOEK GERMAN CEMETERY, PASSCHENDAELE, about 180 metres North-East of Tyne Cot Cemetery, contained the graves of twelve soldiers from the United Kingdom and two from Canada who fell in 1914 and 1915.

LANGEMARCK GERMAN CEMETERY No.7 (also known as TOTENWALDCHEN), 1.6 Kms North-West of the village, contained the graves of four soldiers from the United Kingdom.

LANGEMARCK GERMAN CEMETERY No.8, just beyond the railway on the road to Houthulst, contained the graves of 27 soldiers from the United Kingdom who fell in October 1914.

L'EBBE FARM CEMETERY, POPERINGHE, about 1.6 Kms North-West of the town, contained the graves of 21 soldiers from the United Kingdom who fell in 1915 and 1918.

MANNEKEN FARM GERMAN CEMETERY No.3, ZARREN, in the South-East part of Houthulst Forest, contained the graves of about 700 Germans and 13 British soldiers who fell in 1917.

MANOR ROAD CEMETERY, ZILLEBEKE, at the railway halt 800 metres South-West of Zillebeke village. It contained the graves of 17 soldiers of the United Kingdom (mainly Royal Field Artillery) who fell in 1917 and 1918.

NACHTIGALL (or ROSSIGNOL, or VIEUX-CHIEN) GERMAN CEMETERY, GHELUVELT, 800 metres North of the Rossignol Cabaret on the Menin Road (near the hamlet of Vieux-Chien), contained the graves of 1,130 German soldiers and 69 from the United Kingdom, most of whom fell in September-October 1915.

POELCAPELLE GERMAN CEMETERY No.2, about 1.6 Kms South-East of the village, contained the graves of 96 soldiers from the United Kingdom and Canada who fell in 1914 and 1915.

POELCAPELLE GERMAN CEMETERY No.3, 800 metres South of the village, contained the graves of 23 soldiers from the United Kingdom and 19 from Canada who fell in 1914 and 1915.

RATION DUMP BURIAL GROUND, ZILLEBEKE, on the road a little South of Gordon House, contained the graves of 28 soldiers from the United Kingdom (mainly London Scottish and Liverpool Scottish) and one from Canada.

REUTEL GERMAN CEMETERY, BECELAERE, on the North side of the Reutel-Zwaanhoek road, contained a very large number of German graves and 125 soldiers and airmen from the United Kingdom, two Canadian soldiers and one from New Zealand, who fell in 1914-1917.

ST. JOSEPH GERMAN CEMETERY, HOOGHLEDE, on the North side of the hamlet of Geite or St. Joseph, contained the graves of four airmen from the United Kingdom who fell in 1918.

ST. JULIEN COMMUNAL CEMETERY, LANGEMARCK, contained the graves of six soldiers of the 14th Canadian Battalion who fell in April 1915.

ST. JULIEN EAST GERMAN CEMETERY, LANGEMARCK, on the Langemarck-Zonnebeke road, contained the graves of 65 soldiers from the United Kingdom and 31 from Canada who fell in October 1914 and April 1915.

SCHREIBOOM GERMAN CEMETERY, 800 metres East of Langemarck village, contained the graves of 34 soldiers from the United Kingdom who fell in October 1914.

TRANSPORT FARM ANNEXE, ZILLEBEKE, 180 metres South of the South-West corner of Zillebeke Lake, and a little East of Railway Dugouts Burial Ground (Transport Farm), contained the graves of 27 soldiers from the United Kingdom (16 of whom belonged to the 1st Dorsets) who fell in November 1914-June 1915.

TRENCH RAILWAY CEMETERY, ZILLEBEKE, on the West side of the hamlet of Verbrandenmolen, contained the graves of 21 soldiers from the United Kingdom who fell in 1915 and 1916.

TREURNIET GERMAN CEMETERY, POELCAPELLE, on the road from Poelcapelle village to the railway station, contained the grave of one Canadian soldier.

WALLEMOLEN GERMAN CEMETERY, PASSCHENDAELE, 180 metres South of the hamlet of Wallemolen, contained the graves of 20 soldiers from the United Kingdom and 15 from Canada who fell in 1915.

WEIDENDREFT GERMAN CEMETERY, LANGEMARCK, at Weidendreft Farm, used by the Germans from October 1914 to August 1915, contained the graves of 98 soldiers from the United Kingdom who fell in the Battles of Ypres, 1914.

WESTROOSEBEKE GERMAN CEMETERY No.2, 366 metres North-East of the village on the road to Hooghlede, contained the grave of one R.A.F. Officer who fell in August 1918.

From that extensive list it might be possible to track where the Map reference for the 4 men may fit with one of the cemeteries mentioned.

As for the missing Woolridge, presumably there must have been some doubt as to the identity, despite the disc.

I can't find any Woolridge dying on 31/7/1917, there were 7 in 1917, the closest May or September.

Therefore the WoolDridge found by Craig in Grenadier Guards and commemorated on the Menin Gate.

One other possibility for a lost disc (or identity on the Memorial Cross) might be

WOOLDRIDGE, WILLIAM CLARENCE. Rank: Private. Service No: 12844. Date of Death: 31/07/1917. Age: 24.

Regiment/Service: Royal Berkshire Regiment "D" Coy. 6th Bn.

Grave Reference: II. B. 2. Cemetery: ZANTVOORDE BRITISH CEMETERY.

Additional Information: Son of William W. Wooldridge, of 62, College Rd., Reading.

but he does have a named grave.

[jay dubaya]

The map reference on the above burial return places the original graves SW reaches of Shrewsbury Forest. The individual burial location maps do not show any named cemeteries in the same square.

[steandpaula]

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious but isn't his burial return form plot location crossed out and initialled ?

[ss002d6252]

It is, you're correct. To me, part of the mystery though is who the fourth man on the cross was though.

Craig

[KevinBattle]

Sorry if I'm contradicting slightly, but as there were only 3 sets of remains found, yet the Memorial Cross contained 4 Names, the column marked "Approximate map reference where BODY found" would need to be deleted, as no body was found, whereas ID discs were found for 3 matching the remains that were located to 3 of the Names on the Cross.

As they didn't have a body for Teesdale/Teasdale, he is commemorated on the Menin Gate.

I can't answer for Woolridge/Wooldridge as that seems to be at least a wrong regiment identification.

As temptage raised the question, there is an unidentified burial in Plot 2 J 38 that might correspond to D Wooldridge, Grenadier Guards (not North Staffs)