Guest 2contemptable Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Hello, Could someone please tell me where Kemmel Hill is situated on the Western Front and the military significance of this position during 1914-18? Many Thanks James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 it is a very important hill the west of ploegsteert - Messines. It is the highest hill of the salient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brindlerp Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Attached map courtesy of: http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/the...lllinea1918.jpg Also check out very interesting "German Panoramic photographs Kemmel and Bailleul Area" at: http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/the...assification=16 Regards Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2contemptable Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 Bkristof and Richard, Thanks very much for your help and the map and links. Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 James. Here's a July 1918 trenchmap extract showing the Kemmelberg ..... Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2contemptable Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 Dave Great map, thanks very much. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 This is a brief history of the hill: In 1914 the Brits fought the Germans there. In the winter 1914 The French take position at Kemmel. They stay there the rest of the war. With support of the Commonwealth. For example in 1917 several ALH units wer stationed at Loker, next to the Kemmel hill. In april 1918 after hours of gas and airplane bombardements, the French lose +- 5000 men and lose the heights of Kemmel. It are the Brits, French and Americans who take it back in at the end of august 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 As an aside .. it 's worth noting that post-war soldier's cottages in Randalstown County Antrim were named 'Kemmel Hill' Des Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2contemptable Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 Bkristof and Des, Many thanks for the info, Des I did'nt know that one, most of the stuff on the Irish Soldiers and Sailors Land Trust housing is contained in in the AP2 reference at the National Archives in London. There is also a useful booklet on this subject by F.H.A.AALEN (odd spelling but correct) entitled 'Homes for Irish Heroes' it was published in 1988 however no details of the publisher appear in the intro. Thanks again boys, James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 As Kristof says there was US involvement there, 27 & 30 Divs. which were under British Command their entire time were there at the end of August before moving to the Hindenburg line near Requeval-Bony. There is a monument near Vierestraat. 27 was Tennessee & North Carolina National Guard with some S Carolina, 30 NY NG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frie Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 Hello, The battle of Kemmel Hill april 1918 was part of a big battle - from the river Lys (Leie) in the north of France - in the area of Armentieres - Bailleul - Mont des Cats and in Belgium in Neuve-Eglise (Nieuwkerke) - Wulvergem - Dranouter - Kemmel - Loker (Locre). The Germans reached the Flemish Hills they could not take in 1914. I see that no one mentions the fact that in april 1918 everything was lost that was obtained on 7th june 1917 - the mine-explosions in the Wytschaete-salient. The Germans regained not only the ground lost on 7 june 1917 but they gained a lot of ground. In 1915 the French troops were relieved by British and Canadians, in 1916 the Irish came and stayed until june 1917. (also Australians and New Zealand).. On 7 june 1917 the Irish took the village of Wytschaete, the Ulster division by the south side, The 16th Irish division took Wytschaete by the north. The area around Wytschaete was regained by the Germans on 16 april 1918... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2contemptable Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 Paul and Frie, Thanks for all your help. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff. Hobson Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 History of the 8th Bn., Sherwood Foresters (46th North Midlands Div.,) shows :- April 2nd 1915, Marched to Locre, 3rd April, took over the Kemmel Sector, April 4th to June 20th in line at Kemmel Sector with intervals in rest Billets at Locre. April 24th Heavy trench mortar bombardment of Front Line. June 15th- Enemy blew up by Mines and raided part of Frontline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 Hello, The battle of Kemmel Hill april 1918 was part of a big battle - from the river Lys (Leie) in the north of France - in the area of Armentieres - Bailleul - Mont des Cats and in Belgium in Neuve-Eglise (Nieuwkerke) - Wulvergem - Dranouter - Kemmel - Loker (Locre). The Germans reached the Flemish Hills they could not take in 1914. I see that no one mentions the fact that in april 1918 everything was lost that was obtained on 7th june 1917 - the mine-explosions in the Wytschaete-salient. The Germans regained not only the ground lost on 7 june 1917 but they gained a lot of ground. In 1915 the French troops were relieved by British and Canadians, in 1916 the Irish came and stayed until june 1917. (also Australians and New Zealand).. On 7 june 1917 the Irish took the village of Wytschaete, the Ulster division by the south side, The 16th Irish division took Wytschaete by the north. The area around Wytschaete was regained by the Germans on 16 april 1918... Frie were all French relieved??? I read somewhere there wer French there all the time, mixed with Brits... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Burgoyne Posted 28 November , 2004 Share Posted 28 November , 2004 Hi bkristof I do not know full sitation but there were no French troops in this sector at start of Battle of Lys on 9th April and I think it was about April 17th that French units arrived to help out. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenwoodman Posted 28 November , 2004 Share Posted 28 November , 2004 French formations arrived in 2nd Army's area on 15th April, and two divisions were detailed separately for counter-attacks on the 16th. One never took place, and the other reached only the front line. 28th French Division commenced takeover of the Kemmel Defences on 17th April, and completed by 21st April, retaining some British Engineer and Trench Mortar units and the Kemmel Defence Force. 25th April, preceded by a Bruchmuller-type bombardment, the German Alpenkorps pushed the French off the hill. Hitherto the French had been complaining of the British inability to hold their own frontline - they found out why. (I'd put a smiley here, but don't wish to offend anyone, just recounting an incident between Allies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frie Posted 28 November , 2004 Share Posted 28 November , 2004 French formations in the battle of the Kemmel and the Flemish Hills 14-30 april 1918 28th infantry division - General Madelin - 5400 men killed or wounded. 27 april - 17 may 1918 : 31th Infantry division - relieved the 154th I.Div. (area flemish hills) - battle of Locre ( Loker). On 17 may relieved by the 41th ID. 4 - 16 may 1918: Flemish Hills (Locre- Mont Noir - Mont Rouge - Mont des Cats- Scherpenberg) 18 april: relieved the British 49th ID. Flemish Hills - (Rode Berg -Mont Rouge), Vidaigne) relieved then the British 43th ID. Dead or wounded : 63 officers and 2589 other ranks. 39th ID: Battle of Kemmel Hill - 25 april - 3 may 1918. area Flemish Hills. 121th ID 10 may - 2 june : area Kemmel (De Klytte - Scherpenberg). 129th ID went to Flanders on 29 march - Leaved for St-Omer on 28 april, then to Steenvoorde- On 5 may -sector: Scherpenberg opposite to Kemmel Hill. 154th ID 22 april - in Locre - battles on 25 and 29 april. 7 days of battles on the Flemish hills : dead - wounded - missing : more than 5000! Releaved on 1 may. Cavalry: 2th division: sector : Mont Rouge, Mont des Cats stopped the Germans 28-30 april. 3th division of cavalry: Flemish Hills : in april- battles of Kemmel Hill, the 18th BCP Battalion Chasseurs à Pied) = Riffles dead 520 soldiers and 20 officers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frie Posted 28 November , 2004 Share Posted 28 November , 2004 Sorry forgot the divisions name: It was the 34th I.Division that releaved the 49th British Division and the 43th british division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2contemptable Posted 28 November , 2004 Share Posted 28 November , 2004 What a well informed bunch you all are! Thanks very much for all of your replies. Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 29 November , 2004 Share Posted 29 November , 2004 Brits, Australians, New Zealanders, U.S., French - all mentioned..... Everyone forgotten about the South African involvement in these fights? It usually is! Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenwoodman Posted 29 November , 2004 Share Posted 29 November , 2004 At Kemmel, the S African Bde came late to the fight, having suffered badly at Messines. They had been reorganised as a reinforced battalion, and were in reserve, coming into the support line on 27th April. On 29th the Germans launched an assault towards the Scherpenberg, but the attack was a failure, no ground being gained apart from Locre which was regained by the French the next day. The SA Bde relieved an RSF battalion in the front line on 29/30, and remained there for five days under shellfire. Almost a rest camp for the South Africans after their deeds elsewhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koyli Posted 29 November , 2004 Share Posted 29 November , 2004 The French troops were relieved by the British in the early months of 1915. They only returned in 1918. The only none Commonwealth troops in the area between 1915 and 1918 were the Belgian 7th artillery Regiment which gave support to the Commonwealth troops. KOYLI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrislock Posted 30 November , 2004 Share Posted 30 November , 2004 Must of been dreadful for the French. We have a transcript from a French soldier. He states the barrage on his unit was worse than he had experienced at Verdun! The slopes when disturbed are like an iron mine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenwoodman Posted 30 November , 2004 Share Posted 30 November , 2004 Chris, may I ask for the source of your transcript, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrislock Posted 30 November , 2004 Share Posted 30 November , 2004 Milena has the book and she has buggered off to Amsterdam for a week today! On her return I will sort it. It,s in Dutch but she will translate, back next week end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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