Portrait of an Unknown Officer of the Royal Fusiliers, MC and Bar

[Guest]

The artist was active painting portraits of Mayors in Shoreditch close to the City of London in the 1910s.

This of course Is the recruiting area for the Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regt). This also opens up a potential link with the (City of London) Battalions London Regt (Royal Fusiliers). Not sure if one would expect to see a TF "T" on the lapels if this was the case. MG

[charlesmessenger]

Henry Wilftrid Persse (not Persee) might fit the bill:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Persse

Charles M

[charlie962]

Did you rule out Leslie George Carr ? (post 18);

Comparing a painting with a photo is never easy but the eyes have the same slightly sad(?) look.

[RussT]

I thought the same when I posted it - but I was reluctant to say so - instead hoping to elicit views of the contributors to this thread - but none were forthcoming (until now).

Regards

Russ

[Knotty]

With Leslie G Carr comparing like for like is difficult, but I agree on the eyes, however, if you enlarge the photo, the gentlemen's right ear has a very distinctive pointed shape as opposed to the painting, it could be artistic licence coming into play or they are not the same person in this case.

(my opinion only)

John

[Simon_Fielding]

Henry Wilftrid Persse (not Persee) might fit the bill:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Persse

Charles M

I thought Persse - I think he's here http://www.illustratedfirstworldwar.com/?s=persse&magazine=381&dir-search=yes&from=&to=but I can't 'turn the page'!

[Simon_Fielding]

[Simon_Fielding]

I'd say that's the most likely candidate so far....

[helpjpl]

Did you rule out Leslie George Carr ? (post 18);

Comparing a painting with a photo is never easy but the eyes have the same slightly sad(?) look.

I thought the same when I posted it - but I was reluctant to say so - instead hoping to elicit views of the contributors to this thread - but none were forthcoming (until now).

Regards

Russ

Leslie George Carr. Born 2 August 1896, Peckham. Son of Charles Thomas Carr. Educated at Colfe Grammar School and was employed as a Mining Clerk with Matheson & Co Ltd, Merchants, Lombard Street.

Photograph of Leslie George Carr's MC and Bar | First World War Poetry Digital Archive

JP

[Simon_Fielding]

[charlie962]

[RussT]

And from the other picture of Carr:

[Simon_Fielding]

I think the ears might have it...

[Simon_Fielding]

Charlie / Russ

Any chance of putting the Persse pictures side by side with the portrait?

[charlie962]

Squarer chin, wider mouth...

[RussT]

Persse:

[helpjpl]

Persse was 32 when he died but Carr was only 21.

JP

[Simon_Fielding]

I was only half joking about the ears- an ex police friend said they're the most distinctive part of a face and the slowest to change....

Persse was 32 when he died but Carr was only 21.

JP

Looks more like 32 than 21!

[HertsHistorian]

All,

Huge thanks for your efforts and suggestions already. I’m both impressed and humbled by the willing and effort made on my behalf.

Simon, many thanks for opening up that line of enquiry – not one I would have considered!

H W Persse and LG Carr both look to be viable options and thank you for finding the photographs. Not something I had originally appreciated, but definitively matching the portrait to a surviving image is challenging to say the least!

Martin, I’ve checked the painting again and I’m afraid the only detail that I haven’t already mentioned is on the canvas itself. It is stamped to a company based in London. The word Hampstead appears to be above it but it is very faint.

With regards anything further on the date, Eastman signed it only with the year. I have attached the signature below for interest’s sake.

Though supposition on my part, on inspection of his medal ribbon it might be be concluded that it, or at least the rosette of the bar, was potentially added after the portrait was completed. It appears to be in a slightly more detailed style than the rest (except the face), particularly when compared to the collar badges and buttons. Then again, it could simply reflect the significance placed on the medals and what they represented.

Please see photos attached for your consideration.

Thanks again and best wishes!

Alex

[Guest]

Your easiest route is to ask the National Portrait Gallery if a Catalogue Raisonné was ever published on the artist. These are the definitive catalogues of an artists' complete works. If anyone knew the NPG would probably know, and it might also reveal which dealers handled most of his work.

Given its provenance it seems unlikely the portrat ever went through an auction house. MG

[Guest]

Bambridge on the CWGC data can be eliminated as he was also DSO and MM in addition to the MC and Bar...the MM would have been awarded before any other medals.

Cornaby on the CWGC data can also be eliminated (I think) as his bar to his MC was not Gazetted until 1919

If Flack, Persse, Usher and Tower have been eliminated (prev post #4), there are no other RF Officers MC and Bar on the CWGC database. London Regt (Royal Fusiliers) CWGC data has no MC and Bar, and unless I am missing something this means it is not a memorial painting and the sitter was alive at the time.

Assuming he was alive and the award of an MC and Bar was probably not the reason for the portrait (I would expect to see the medal if it was and while MC and Bar is quite special I cant see why anyone would have commissioned a portrait). This means the reason for the portrait has to be figured out. Often Commanding Officers had their portraits painted, so it might be worth exploring if any of the 55 MC and Bar men ever commanded a Battalion.

Also I note that Norman Allen Lewis on Harry's list was also a DSO, which brings into question the sequence of awards... In this case the LG date for his DSO was 26 Jul 1917 where he is described as Norman Allen Lewis MC...so the sequence looks MC, MC (17 Apr 17) DSO (26 Jul 1917) ...which narrows the window for him to prior to 26 Jul 1917.

Leslie George Carr can be eliminated as his MCs were both gazetted in 1918.

Edit. I think Harry Brook is on the right track. I would focus on his list. (see below with eliminated names struck out Battalions from MICs added

"The list of Royal Fusiliers M.C. bars found up to the end of 1917 is as follows:-

Temp Capt. Albert Alexander Pargiter HUMFREY, 23rd Bn., (99th Inf Bde 2nd Div) M.C. Feb. 1917 bar April 1917. He was later Labour Corps, resigned his commission on account of ill health 22.12.1918 and died 26.4.1920 (not C.W.G.C. commemorated). His death warranted an announcement in The Times.

Lt. (Temp. Capt.) Norman Allen LEWIS, 23rd Bn., M.C. Feb 1917 bar April 1917.

Lt. (Actg. Capt.) Henry Wilfred PERSSE, 6th attd. 2nd Bn., M.C. Jan. 1916 bar June 1917. see IPT's post #4

Lt. Francis George BULL 23rd Bn. M.C. June 1917 bar July 1917. He was a battalion signalling officer. 23rd Battalion (99th Inf Bde 2nd Div)

2nd Lt. Oliver William HEPBURN, Bn. not known. M.C. Aug. 1917 bar Sept. 1917. 1st Bn (17th Inf Bde 24th Div). Ex LCpl 17th Lancers

Temp. Capt. (Actg. Maj.) Samuel John Markham HOLE, 17th Bn. M.C. Feb. 1917 bar Sept. 1917. 17th Battalion (99th Inf Bde 33rd Div)

Temp. 2nd Lt. George Stanley PEARCY, Bn. not known. M.C. April 1917 bar October 1917. 10th (Stockbrokers') Bn (111th Inf Bde, 37 Div) , 11th Bn (54th Inf Bde, 18th Div) 5th Bn (Depot, Hounslow)

Temp. 2nd Lt. Wilfrid Pym TROTTER, 32nd Bn. M.C. Jan. 1917 bar Nov. 1917. 32nd Bn, 13th Bn (111th inf Bde, 2nd Div)

Lt. (Actg. Capt.) Rupert Charles BAMBRIDGE, Bn. not known. M.C. April 1917 bar Nov. 1917. Also MM and DSO

Lt. (Actg. Capt.) James Ferrand DEARDEN, 2nd Bn. M.C. Sept. 1916, bar Nov. 1917. He can probably be discounted as he was also D.S.O. before receiving a bar to his M.C.

and the officer in the portrait is not wearing the ribbon. "

Interestingly Humfrey, Bull and Hole disembarked on the same day (16th Nov 1915) and Humfrey and Bull were both 23rd (1st Sportsman's) Bn. Both Battalions were 99th Inf Bde and 2nd Div.

[Simon_Fielding]

SJM Hole

http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person/mp72147/samuel-john-markham-hole

[Guest]

SJM Hole

http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person/mp72147/samuel-john-markham-hole

Hole served in the 17th (Empire) Battalion according to his MIC. There is a photo of Montgomery (Commanding 17th Bn) with his Officers (no date) on the attached link. Scroll to the bottom and it is second photo from the bottom. Chap on extreme right front row looks a possibility. I think this was 1919. Quite blurred. Click

[Simon_Fielding]

Email from the NPG

"Dear Simon,

I would recommend you trying the National Army Museum (http://www.nam.ac.uk/research) or the Imperial War Museum (info@nam.ac.uk)

Best wishes

Clare"

[seaJane]

I believe that Eastman was a Royal Academician, so maybe the RA's library and archive can advise where his correspondence may be?

https://www.royalacademy.org.uk/collections-and-research

sJ