4thGordons Posted 27 February , 2016 Share Posted 27 February , 2016 At various points I have mentioned my interest in Enfields in Indian service. I just acquired an interesting Indian Drill Purpose Pattern 14 rifle. As I was inspecting it I took a couple of pictures, and placed a Indian Drill Purpose ShtLE MkIII* alongside. India was received 100,000 Pattern 14 rifles direct from the US manufacturer (Remington) in 1916. These were supplemented with more from the UK later. At some point a large number of these rifles were downgraded to Drill Purpose (DP) and had most major components stamped DP and a hole drilled transversely through the chamber. In addition a red/white stripe was painted around the stock. Sometime in the last decade a batch of these rifles were imported into the US, some were still functional, some were DP rifles. The rifles exhibit some interesting traits. All those I have seen have presented in the WWII Weedon Repair Standard (WRS) format with the volley sight removed and the front base ground down. My functioning example of an Indian P14 (not shown) although grubby shoots well. This particular drill rifle was of interest to me because it is in a replacement stock (with no provision for the volley sight). According to Edwards (India's Enfield) this took place in the 1960s (probably around 1962 during the Indo-Chinese conflict). The butt on these rifles is slightly shorter than the standard P14 length. It also appears to have the markings partially scrubbed (although traces of the markings on the barrel remain the receiver shows no sign of British acceptance marks/inspections. This particular stock has a 11-1969 date stamped on it indicating that it was still in at least 53 years after manufacture! Certainly not going to win any prizes for appearance but an interesting example of GW equipment in service long after one might expect. The SMLE is also an Indian Drill Purpose rifle with a drilled chamber. The kicker on this one is that it was manufactured...... in 1972, more than 65 years after the MkIII was introduced in 1907! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 27 February , 2016 Share Posted 27 February , 2016 All those I have seen have presented in the WWII Weedon Repair Standard (WRS) format with the volley sight removed and the front base ground down. Did the rifles that were upgraded to WRS at Weedon receive a marking for identification purposes.? You would not expect the original 100,000 rifles sent direct from the US to have ever made it to Britain to receive the upgrades. Also these rifles highlight the difficulties involved in identifying unit markings appearing on more recent surplus P1903, P1907 and P1913 bayonets. People tend to forget they stayed on in Indian military service for such a long period. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 27 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 27 February , 2016 Did the rifles that were upgraded to WRS at Weedon receive a marking for identification purposes.? You would not expect the original 100,000 rifles sent direct from the US to have ever made it to Britain to receive the upgrades. Also these rifles highlight the difficulties involved in identifying unit markings appearing on more recent surplus P1903, P1907 and P1913 bayonets. People tend to forget they stayed on in Indian military service for such a long period. Cheers, S>S If they were refinished to the WRS in the UK then yes they usually have a mark (6 pointed star) and a number on the bottom of the stock indicating which Depot/Company did the work (they were not all done at Weedon despite that depot giving its name to the process) I was not clear, I do not believe the rifles coming out of India were returned to the UK simply to have the volley sight removed. What I was meaning to indicate was I believe that the rifles that remained in Indian service were also modified in the same way (ie consistent with the WRS) but not as a result of or by passing through this British program. Cheers, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N White Posted 28 February , 2016 Share Posted 28 February , 2016 It is amazing sometimes to look back at what some guns have or may have gone through. This is a Russian 91/30, post war refurb, imported to the US a couple of years ago. Why am I dropping it in this post? Well, the stock is new(er), but the barrel and action are original 1897 manufactured m91 Dragoon. This is a gun that was around for the Boxer Rebellion, the Russo-Japanese War, the First World War, the Bolshevik takeover, the Second World War, and some time after that, after 50 some odd years in service, they refurbish it and stick it into storage for ANOTHER 60 years, ready for the next time it was needed. An all original 1897 gun would be wonderful, but odds are it would have served only a handful of years. This gun is nearly 120 years old, and was actively in use for the bloodiest parts of the 20th century, and still in reserve in Russia until a (relatively) short time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 28 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 28 February , 2016 Amazing! Surprised the Tsarist emblem survived the refurbs ! I have a similar rifle (Hex receiver 91/30) but original markings are obliterated. Now you have got me thinking about others I may have in hiding! Thanks for posting this! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N White Posted 28 February , 2016 Share Posted 28 February , 2016 I looked at a lot of Mosins to find that one. Oldest refurb I ever saw, although others have been found. I was lucky enough to get it for the (at the time) going rate... $129. Never see that again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 28 February , 2016 Share Posted 28 February , 2016 I was not clear, I do not believe the rifles coming out of India were returned to the UK simply to have the volley sight removed. What I was meaning to indicate was I believe that the rifles that remained in Indian service were also modified in the same way (ie consistent with the WRS) but not as a result of or by passing through this British program. Yes I understand what you mean Chris. What I was wondering about was the later supply of British P14 rifles to India, post the WRS upgrades. Possibly circa WW2.? So these rifles would then be showing the WRS star marking. Have any of these 'proper Weedon' rifles been found surfacing amongst the Indian surplus P14 rifles.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 28 February , 2016 Share Posted 28 February , 2016 Fascinating rifles if rather ugly with that paint job! IIRC the Indian and Pakistani police forces were still using SMLE's into the 1970/80's - I wonder what vintage they were?! Also these rifles highlight the difficulties involved in identifying unit markings appearing on more recent surplus P1903, P1907 and P1913 bayonets. People tend to forget they stayed on in Indian military service for such a long period. That could well be the case but would you supply an example? TIA! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 28 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 28 February , 2016 Fascinating rifles if rather ugly with that paint job! IIRC the Indian and Pakistani police forces were still using SMLE's into the 1970/80's - I wonder what vintage they were?! That could well be the case but would you supply an example? TIA! Trajan I believe some are still in service although these days usually with rural/village level paramilitary police forces. If you look at the footage of the attacks in Mumbai some of the police engaging the attackers in (IIRC) the railway station were armed with Enfields Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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