stephenh Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 I am researching a Canadian soldier whom according to the war diaries was KIA in this village on 16/11/17, just after the main battle for Passchendaele had finished. However can any Pals pinpoint this village as I can not seem to find it anywhere. Regards Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Stephen, Right now I can't help you. Looking at the maps in McCarthy's Passchendaele The Day by Day Account, or other maps, does not help But it seems to me that "Boathoek" is a misspelling or misreading. "Boat" cannot possibly be part of a name of a location in our West-Flemish dialect. The component "... hoek" is fine, for a small hamlet. (We have "Westhoek" en "Oosthoek" in the area.) Is what you see in the War diary handwritten or typewritten ? And the first letter sure is a B ? (That would be useful for a start, going through a register or something). Any idea whether is is west, south, east or north of the village of Passendale ? Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatterySergeantMajor Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Stephen I checked the surroundings of Passchendaele - Passendale on trench map edition 7A "Zonnebeke". Nothing found which even sounded like "boatshoek". Regrettably I don't have the map north of Zonnebeke, which covers also a tiny part of the Canadian area north and east of "Mosselmarkt". Someone else can have a look on that map? Another possibility is to have a look on the annexes in the war diary (if you have them)? They contain offen more interesting information as the actual diaries. Erwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Aurel/others, could it be Boethoek? Or Boothoek (which at least would sound like boat in English)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Chris, Do you mean that somehow you think that there is a place called Boethoek or Boothoek in the Salient ? Actually, when I saw Stephen's posting "Boathoek", my idea went in the same direction, but then I thought that maybe I confounded with Boetleer (Farm ?) There is a village Booitshoeke, but that is not in the Salient. (Near Veurne / Furnes) Stephen, What is the context ? Mention of any other places nearby, apart from Passendale ? Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 The closest to Boathoek is de (drogen) Broodhoek... That is the second slope of Passchendaele were the German Flandern2-stellung was. The Canadians attacked that... maybe they called it just broodhoek >>> boathoek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Kristof, Interesting ! 2 km south southeast of Passendale centre. If someone (Dave Croonaert ?) could find out how this place was named on 1917 maps... Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatterySergeantMajor Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 The similarity is striking, but there are other arguments which make me wondering if this explanation is possible. As Aurel stated it is quite far from Passchendaele, and to my knowledge the intention of the C-I-C was to capture Passchendaele Ridge to have a better position during the following winter, but then stop the advance. Gough and Plumer weren't even happy with going on to Passchendaele. So I have the impression there wasn't an intention to take Drogenbroodhoek which, as Kristof is stating, was on the strong Flandern II-stellung. Erwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Erwin, The Nova scotia monument is almost on the Drogenbroodhoek !!! And you know that one for sure . And there is talking of actions in end octobre 1917 in that area! The soldier can also bee killed in a recon mission... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatterySergeantMajor Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Erwin, The Nova scotia monument is almost on the Drogenbroodhoek !!! And you know that one for sure . And there is talking of actions in end octobre 1917 in that area! The soldier can also bee killed in a recon mission... True, but that is at least another 1 kilometer from "Den Drogen" and major actions there came to an end the 30th of October. Checking the map which is in the History of the CEF (Nicholson) I notice that in the area of the 2nd CAN Bde - 7th Bn the 10th of October -line was crossed (north of Vindictive Crossroads, which is east of Mosselmarkt. Probably one of the last actions? They had to return to the green line finally. No mention of "Boatshoek" there. Maybe knowing to which Bn the man was belonging can help? And as Kristof says: it shouldn't be necessary one of the larger fights, it can have happened anywher on the Canadian frontline in a minor action or shelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 As the Flemish ending "Hoek" is pronounced as the English "hook" does anyone think it might be a joke name for a village which was really called something else? Boathook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Just found this - I think it is an excerpt from the 102nd Bn War Diary: Nov. 12th saw us on our way to Support area on Abraham Heights. The intention was that the Battalion would only stay in the Forward area a couple of nights, pending relief by the Imperials, and orders were issued that no shaving kits of any description were to be taken up; this order was gleefully obeyed by nearly everybody. As it turned out, we remained in the line seven full days, and the results were rather comical. On arrival at Boathoek, where Headquarters "was to be established, we found that the 87th Bn., whom we were relieving, were not yet ready to proceed up to the front line, as their rations had not come up. We were accordingly kept, waiting for two hours standing round in pitch darkness; in the meantime the Hun shelled the ration dump, inflicting serious casualties on the 87th, with the result that after all we had later on to supply carrying parties to take up their rations. In addition, during the next three nights we were kept busy sending up stretcher-bearing parties to bring out their casualties, as they seemed to be utterly unable to cope with these themselves. Finally at about 10.00 p.m. the 87th, to our great relief, moved up and allowed us to settle down. During this tour Lieut.-Col. J. T. O'Donohue, D.S.O., commanding the 87th, was acting as Brigadier in the absence of Brigadier-General Odlum, who was acting as Divisional Commander. For three days we furnished working parties of all sorts, Support area being subjected all the time to heavy artillery fire, which caused many casualties. Headquarters had its full share of this bombardment, but the pill-box which served as an office was built by the Hun for just such contingencies, and though several direct hits were registered the only damage done was to the officers' breakfast on the morning of the 15th. On the afternoon of the 16th the Battalion moved up by platoons to relieve the 87th in the front line. It is impossible to give any adequate idea of the scenery on the way to the summit of Passchendaele Ridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Can't be Drogenbroodhoek then, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 found it!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 At the southwest of Abrahams Heights!!! Boethoek, that must be it !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Kristof ! You have beaten me by 2 minutes ! But your map is better than mine. Congratulations ! Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 It is not a race Aurel.. Glad you found it too. I found this map several minutes ago, but i had trouble to make the file small enough, but still big enough to see the printing and the area... I think everything matches with the story. Another mystery solved by the Great War forum detectives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Well done Kristof. Next questions - is is a village, a hamlet, a farm? Is it still called Boathoek today? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Tom, A farm. (I don't know its name now. But there certainly is a post war farm now. Also where Van Meulen Farm used to be.) But Kristof will know or find out, for I think he lives closer by. Besides, too dark now in Flanders to take my bike ...) Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 26 November , 2004 Share Posted 26 November , 2004 As far as I know it is a farm now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 27 November , 2004 Share Posted 27 November , 2004 If someone (Dave Croonaert ?) could find out how this place was named on 1917 maps... Apologies for my lateness on this thread!!! For my penance, here's a trenchmap scan from late November 1917 showing the relationship of Boathoek Fm. to the frontline (as near to the date requested as I can - Map ref: "Belgium Sheet 28 N.E. edition 9A"). Hope it's OK. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenh Posted 27 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 27 November , 2004 Pals This is super stuff. Soory about my late reply, away for the last couple of days after posting. Great to come back and see the Pals have done their stuff again. I am researching Cpl H White of the 102nd Btn CEF who was killed in action on the 16/11/17 at a place called Boathoek (seems to be from an exploding gas shell) according to the War Diaries, and he is commemorated on the Menin Gate. He was awarded the military medal, gazetted on 27th Dec 1918. So the other evening I was checking the Diaries to see where he may have won it, and it seems that from the superb Canadian data that his battalion did'nt see much action until he was KIA. Anyway it is great to see where he met his end and uncover more information on this brave soldier. Thank You Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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