Ships and navies

[tonycad]

: My grandfather, father and uncle (Albert) served in the Mercantile Marine in WW1. Albert's ship was 'requisitioned' by the Royal Navy to carry munitions to the Mediterranean. He lost his life when his boat was torpedoed off the Isle of Wight in February 1918. I have quite a lot of detail on the background to this incident, and I have learned that the crew of such reqisioned ships were classified as RN, subject to the same terms and conditions as RN personnel. Hence my grandmother drew a Navy pension until she died in 1961. Albert's name appears on the RN Memorial to the Missing on the Hoe at Plymouth, and on two Mercantile Memorials that I know of. He is also on the CWGC register.

My question is would Albert's parents have received a WW1 Memorial Plaque

Thank you,

Tonycad

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Yes Mercantile Marine Personnel Received the Plaque under certain Circumstances,If death was atrributed to the War.He would also have been entitled to the BWM & Mercantile Marine War Medal & possibly the Victory Medal as he was Serving with the RN.

[Guest Pete Wood]

My question is would Albert's parents have received a WW1 Memorial Plaque

As long as he died before 11.11.1918 his next of kin would have received a bronze memorial plaque.

The cut-off date, above, is earlier than that imposed on army/navy/RAF casualties. Death by influenza wouldn't entitle a Mercantile Marine's next of kin to a plaque, either. It really did have to be a war related death to qualify.

The scroll for the mercantile marine was different than that given to the next of kin of the 'armed forces.'

The Mercantile scroll has no rank, just the name.

The plaque would almost certainly have had a narrow H (as in 'HE DIED for freedom and honour) and was made at the Woolwich Arsenal. It would have been sent out from the middle of 1921 onwards.

[Terry Denham]

As long as he died before 11.11.1918 his next of kin would have received a bronze memorial plaque.

The cut-off date, above, is earlier than that imposed on army/navy/RAF casualties. Death by influenza wouldn't entitle a Mercantile Marine's next of kin to a plaque, either. It really did have to be a war related death to qualify.

RT

Does that mean that, if a ship struck a mine in 1919 and a Mercantile Marine man was killed, his family would not receive a plaque?

In these circumstances he would get CWGC recognition and I had not conceived of any occasion where a casualty with war grave status would not get a plaque - unlike the reverse situation where there were plaque recipients without war grave status.

[Guest Pete Wood]

Does that mean that, if a ship struck a mine in 1919 and a Mercantile Marine man was killed, his family would not receive a plaque?

Correct. No plaque in the example you have given.

He had to die "as a result of enemy action.... between 4th August 1914 and 11th November 1918."

So no rank/title on the scroll, and really strict rules over issue.

Another example. In 1916, if a British destroyer accidentally strikes a trawler, which sinks - and a man drowns, he is recognised by the CWGC but doesn't receive a plaque and scroll. That's because the trawler was not sunk by enemy action.

Very harsh indeed.

[Terry Denham]

RT

Thanks for the enlightenment. Another piece of minutiae to squirrel away!

There is obviously a big difference between 'enemy action' and 'war causes' (the CWGC criterion).

[Guest Pete Wood]

Not quite clear cut. If a Mercantile Marine was injured in, say, 1917 by a splinter from a German battleship, and he died in 1924, his next of kin would have been entitled to a plaque and scroll.

His death was as a result of enemy action and he died within 7 years of the retirement (or the end of the war - whichever was sooner), hence the qualification.

Of course, it required the next of kin to apply for the plaque and scroll (as the death took place after 11.11.1918) and supply medical evidence to back up the claim.

[tonycad]

Unfortunately, I sent my message replyng to this thread directly to a Pal rather than to this forum.

Essentially, I said that my grandmother's hose was bombed and burned during the Blitz on Swansea in 1941, when any memorabilia relating to my uncle would have been lost. Unfortuately, my grandmother and father did not volunteer anything on the subject, and of course I did know the questions to ask.

Would a Pal let me have the name of the web site on Medal Index Cards, so that I may check that my uncles' m,edals were issued.

Thank you

tonycad

[Guest Pete Wood]

You can't check his Medal Index Card at http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchive...y=*&queryType=1

because only the army records have been transcribed. You'll have to go the National Archives, or pay a researcher to look at them for you.

If I'm wrong, someone kindly put me straight.