Mickjam Posted 25 January , 2016 Share Posted 25 January , 2016 Hi Can anybody tell me what the number 1 stamped on the butt / stock disc on my 1914 Lithgow smle relates to please. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickjam Posted 25 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2016 Another pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thVBGH Posted 30 January , 2016 Share Posted 30 January , 2016 Seems a rather odd marking, the discs are usually marked with the A Star marking as well, so to see a 1 on its own is unusual. Doesn't seem to be an Australian marking..... The butt doesn't have the Lithgow markings either that I'd expect from a 1914 Lithgow. Any pics of the receiver? Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 30 January , 2016 Share Posted 30 January , 2016 Seems a rather odd marking, the discs are usually marked with the A Star marking as well, so to see a 1 on its own is unusual. Doesn't seem to be an Australian marking..... The butt doesn't have the Lithgow markings either that I'd expect from a 1914 Lithgow. Any pics of the receiver? Robert I agree it looks to have had the butt replaced. A lithgow rifle would usually have considerably more marking on the side of the butt. Even WWII and later rifle FTRs have the date stamped there. It is conceivable that the butt disc has been flipped and the lithgow star is on the other side but if that was done it was done a while ago by the look of it. The font of the 1 also looks atypical. The rifle looks to be in nice early configuration (is the volley sight still complete and present on the other side and is the rear sight windage adjustable?) A 1914 Lithgow is a desirable rifle as production was low and only started in 1913. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo.T Posted 30 January , 2016 Share Posted 30 January , 2016 Somewhat earlier I know, but after an armourers inspection, a "1" stamp ( usually accompanied by the WD /I\ ) Indicated that the weapon was fit for service with front line troops. However a "2" would indicate downgrading due to wear or age. Such weapons would be used for training only. Just a shot in the dark really, nice gun btw. Tomo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thVBGH Posted 30 January , 2016 Share Posted 30 January , 2016 I agree, that shouldn't be a disc marking though on its own, and should probablt be a stock marking rather than a disc marking. The style of font is as Chris isn 't quite correct. Its not a later Australian FTR as thats a whole other can of worms stock markings wise anyway. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickjam Posted 31 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2016 Here are a few more pics. I removed disc but no markings visible. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickjam Posted 31 January , 2016 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2016 Some other markings , the Lithgow star is just visible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 31 January , 2016 Share Posted 31 January , 2016 The style of some of those markings (esp the RF and the 15/IV) suggests the rifle may have been through an Indian FTR - are there any other indications of this? For example on the wrist of the rifle where the most obvious Lithgow marking is found or below the safety lever on the right side of the wrist. Is the barrel original? this should be easily checkable by looking under the upper handguard - usually Lithgow barrels will be smothered in markings (shields stars etc). In fact Lithgow components in general are usually pretty well marked so I would be looking for stars/As on the cocking piece, trigger etc as well. Has the rifle been resighted for MkVII (HV) ammunition? the barrel behind the rear sight (in the semi-circular cut out of the handguard) may be stamped HV if so -- and I can't make out from the pictures if the rear sight is windage adjustable or not. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickjam Posted 1 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 1 February , 2016 The style of some of those markings (esp the RF and the 15/IV) suggests the rifle may have been through an Indian FTR - are there any other indications of this? For example on the wrist of the rifle where the most obvious Lithgow marking is found or below the safety lever on the right side of the wrist. Is the barrel original? this should be easily checkable by looking under the upper handguard - usually Lithgow barrels will be smothered in markings (shields stars etc). In fact Lithgow components in general are usually pretty well marked so I would be looking for stars/As on the cocking piece, trigger etc as well. Has the rifle been resighted for MkVII (HV) ammunition? the barrel behind the rear sight (in the semi-circular cut out of the handguard) may be stamped HV if so -- and I can't make out from the pictures if the rear sight is windage adjustable or not. Chris Hi Chris I am not an expert on these rifles,but here are some markings i have found. bayonet lug on end of barrel Z7188 sight elevation on left hand handgrip EFD08 barrel in cut out under sights HV sights 7 one of the two vertical lugs adjacent sights upright arrow with EFD and 2 underneath. metal strap under bolt handle joined to trigger guard star with A inside , underlined, shield with LITHGOW SMILE 111 ,with 1914 underneath. magazine is stamped V34 reciever ? 16574 end bit of bolt M catch on near sight has 111 stamp near sight is adjustable. front right hand side of bolt hard to read ,but looks like DD with X and 72 underneath. Chris how were the left hand sights used ? Hope you can understand my descriptions. Regards Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 1 February , 2016 Share Posted 1 February , 2016 (edited) Hi Mick At work so I will answer at length (with pics) later and try and comment on the markings but: The volley sights allow you to keep the rifle on your shoulder whilst sighting on a very distant target. If you elevate the rear sight towards the maximum range in order to keep the foresight in the target you have to lower the butt which makes it hard to keep on your shoulder. The volley sight overcomes this (which is magnified at more extreme ranges by both raising the rear sight (stand the peep up) and lowering the foresight below the axis of the barrel (which allows you to keep the rifle on your shoulder yet also maintain a high elevation and keep the bead on a very distant sight. To use it you stand the rear peep up vertically, then rotate the pointer on the side of the rifle around until it indicates the range on the dial, then you place the nob on the side of the pointer on the target using the peep. I think I posted some pictures somewhere I'll do a quick search if I don't find them I'll post some new ones later Cheers Chris HURRAH! success -- see here: CLICKETY CLICK This might also be of general interest on the rifle, as I said more later! Edited 1 February , 2016 by 4thGordons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickjam Posted 1 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 1 February , 2016 Hi Mick At work so I will answer at length (with pics) later and try and comment on the markings but: The volley sights allow you to keep the rifle on your shoulder whilst sighting on a very distant target. If you elevate the rear sight towards the maximum range in order to keep the foresight in the target you have to lower the butt which makes it hard to keep on your shoulder. The volley sight overcomes this (which is magnified at more extreme ranges by both raising the rear sight (stand the peep up) and lowering the foresight below the axis of the barrel (which allows you to keep the rifle on your shoulder yet also maintain a high elevation and keep the bead on a very distant sight. To use it you stand the rear peep up vertically, then rotate the pointer on the side of the rifle around until it indicates the range on the dial, then you place the nob on the side of the pointer on the target using the peep. I think I posted some pictures somewhere I'll do a quick search if I don't find them I'll post some new ones later Cheers Chris HURRAH! success -- see here: CLICKETY CLICK This might also be of general interest on the rifle, as I said more later! Chris your the Man! Very carefully took of hand guard as per your markings detail sheet,and found more markings on barrel, a asterisk as on pc keyboard over a W two what look to be crossed swords with a D and A and another letter ,really faint. And the best stamp of all the LITHGOW star with A over I or could be 1 Thanks Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 2 February , 2016 Share Posted 2 February , 2016 Hi Chris I am not an expert on these rifles,but here are some markings i have found. bayonet lug on end of barrel Z7188 This is probably a serial number from another rifle. Given the number of Enfield marked parts (EFD below) it looks like this rifle has been assembled from a mixture of parts around a Lithgow barreled receiver. There should be serial numbers on the Receiver, barrel, rear of the bolt handle, underside of the rear sight, bayonet boss and also stamped into the wood of the forend and these would all have matched originally) in British service where these parts were replaced they would normally have been renumbered to match. sight elevation on left hand handgrip EFD08 Sounds like an Enfield (EFD) inspection stamp barrel in cut out under sights HV Indicates the rifle is sighted for MkVII "High Velocity" ammunition as opposed to the earlier MkVI sights 7 one of the two vertical lugs adjacent sights upright arrow with EFD and 2 underneath. Sounds like an Enfield (EFD) inspection stamp metal strap under bolt handle joined to trigger guard star with A inside , underlined, shield with LITHGOW SMILE 111 ,with 1914 underneath. Probably reads ShtLE magazine is stamped V34 reciever ? 16574 This is the serial number - probably repeated on the bolt -- see also note above end bit of bolt M This is a common marking meaning "Difference in Specification" to be perfectly honest I am not entirely sure what this really means (sometimes U is also stamped with the same meaning) I believe it refers to particular manufacturing tolerances and clocking up of the bolthead but I don't actually know -- perhaps Thunderbox can tell you if he sees this -- it is very common to see M or U stamped on ShtLE bolt heads though. catch on near sight has 111 stamp This is III (indicating MkIII, this is the safety catch / locking lever) near sight is adjustable. Yes adjustable for range of course but does it also move LEFT and RIGHT (for windage) probably with a knurled wheel on the right side (and the reason for the offset on the rear sight protector wings) front right hand side of bolt hard to read ,but looks like DD with X and 72 underneath. This sounds like a proof mark on the bolt handle if it is crossed pennants rather than an X?Mick Very carefully took of hand guard as per your markings detail sheet,and found more markings on barrel, a asterisk as on pc keyboard over a W An asterisk over a w indicates that an inspection of the barrel has found it to be Cord Worn. An asterisk on its own indicates rust or other damage in the barrel. two what look to be crossed swords with a D and A and another letter ,really faint. Again sounds like a proof mark And the best stamp of all the LITHGOW star with A over I or could be 1 Well this suggests it is the original (or an Australian replacement) barrel. Is there a date on the barrel at all? There are usually quite a lot of stamps on early barrels - this sounds pretty sparse. Thanks Mick Hope that helps -- is this rifle deactivated or is it a live firing rifle? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickjam Posted 2 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 2 February , 2016 Hi Chris Thanks for taking the time to help with markings. The rifle has been deactivated. I will look again for more markings on barrel. Regards Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docchippy Posted 2 February , 2016 Share Posted 2 February , 2016 wo what look to be crossed swords with a D and A and another letter ,really faint. Again sounds like a proof mark This is the deactivation mark. The really feint letter will be the date it was deactivated. or date letter depending on when deactivated and which proof house certified the deactivation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickjam Posted 3 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 3 February , 2016 wo what look to be crossed swords with a D and A and another letter ,really faint. Again sounds like a proof mark This is the deactivation mark. The really feint letter will be the date it was deactivated. or date letter depending on when deactivated and which proof house certified the deactivation Thanks Docchippy. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demo Posted 3 February , 2016 Share Posted 3 February , 2016 A 1914 Lithgow butt for comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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