'SJ Riley' (kwf 18 January 1917) - who was he/she?

[quemerford]

Looking at a few 28 Sqn Casualty Cards on the RAF Vault site, I came across one for Lt RCB Riley (injured whilst flying FE.2b 4899 on 18th January 1917). Nothing odd in that, until I looked at the 'Name of other Occupant of Machine' column and noted the entry, 'Cadet SJ Riley - non RFC', who was apparently killed in the crash, which occurred at/near Dartmouth.

Aside from the obvious name similarity, this card does seem to indicate two 'Rileys' aboard 4899 on this sortie.

However, the 'non RFC' bit intrigued me, and upon digging a bit further I can find no mention of this person's death in either TSTBII or Airmen Died. (unless I've missed something!).

Likewise, if I search BMD for a Devonshire death of 'SJ Riley' in Q1 1917 I find nothing. Ditto for CWGC.

Therefore I'm left with a few possibilities:

1. That there was no cadet pilot on this sortie, and that the 'two Rileys' are in fact just one person. But this seems unlikely, given the 'killed' statement (instructor Lt RCB Riley received broken legs, but was certainly not killed - he eventually died in 1960).

2. That the cadet's name was completely incorrect, but I can't find a corresponding death for anyone relevant on that date.

3. That Cadet Riley was not a Commonwealth citizen, and thus missing from most of the usual search tools. But surely he would at least be registered in BMD?

4. That ‘SJ Riley’ was in fact John S Riley (BMD died Q1 1917 in Devon) - even though he seems to have been 15/16 years old at the time. But again, why no mention in TSTBII, Airmen Died etc?

5. Given the surname, could SJ Riley have been a relative of the pilot? And given the location, I did wonder if maybe this person could have been a naval cadet, but again, why no record on CWGC etc?

Can anyone clarify? I do wonder if the passenger was an unauthorised civilian, given the 'non RFC' statement, but the lack of a BMD indication of a death still doesn't tie in. I imagine that it may be just down to an incorrect entry on the Casualty Card, but I'd still appreciate anything that could clarify the whole thing.

[The Inspector]

Hi

It looks as though possibility No.4 is going to be correct. The death certificate would solve the puzzle.

Regards Barry

Roger Charles Bernard Riley was born 24.11.1899 at Brighton, gained his flying cert number 3198 on 20th May 1916. Pic on Ancestry. At that time was living at Leek Wootton, Warwick.,which was the address of his brother in 1923 (Arthur Croome Riley, incoming passengers)

Edited 7 January , 2016 by The Inspector

[tootrock]

There was a Roger Charles B Riley born in Brighton in 1890, and a John Salisbury Riley, born Steyning (part of Brighton) 1902. They could perhaps be brothers?

Martin

[CGM]

Roger Charles Bernard Riley is definitely the pilot.

His records show he was injured in an aero accident 18-1-17.

"‘SJ Riley’ was in fact John S Riley (BMD died Q1 1917 in Devon"

This death was registered in Totnes registration District - which is the district covering Dartmouth.

CGM

[The Inspector]

Hi All

John Salisbury Riley post 3, was boarding at a school in Leamington, Warwickshire in 1911. So looks promising.

Regards Barry

BMD records have his middle name as SalUsbury.

Edited 7 January , 2016 by The Inspector

[CGM]

The father of Roger Charles Bernard Riley was the Rev. E. Riley of Leek Wootton, Warwick and Roger Charles Bernard Riley was in the Warwickshire Yeomanry and Royal Air Force.

CGM

[quemerford]

All,

Many thanks for this: looks like an unauthorised joy ride so far.

No record on RCB Riley's RFC record of a related censure, which I'd assume would have been appropriate.

I will try to get onto Dartmouth area newspaper archives to see if there is anything contemporary. It's likely to have been reported if it was indeed RCB's younger brother.

[IPT]

The best clue I have managed to find is that R C B Riley married Eleanor Cowlard in 1919 and, in 1920, named his son John Salusbury Riley.

[quemerford]

A scenario is quickly forming then: brother names son after deceased brother. The reasons don't really need explaining.

[The Inspector]

Hi All

Post 8, they were married on 28th June 1919 at Yateley, Hants. Roger, eldest son of the late Rev.Edward Riley and Mrs. Riley of Leamington (Warwickshire) Eleanor Dorothea Cowlard, she died in 1987 in Bath. John Salusbury Riley was born 6th April 1920 and died 1988 ,Torbay, Devon Vol.21, page 2435.

Regards Barry

On 27th Feb. 1939 John Salusbury Riley was a passenger with his father, Roger, a Stockbroker, arriving on the Durban Castle in Southampton from Mozambique. Roger C B Riley died 14th Sept.1960 at Salisbury Hospital, Southern Rhodesia, his home address being County Antrim. Effects to wife Eleanor Dorothea Riley.

As I previously posted the death cert. will answer the questions.

Edited 8 January , 2016 by The Inspector

[The Inspector]

Hi All..again

The Rev. Edward (Roger's dad) and his wife Annie had 4 children according to the 1911 census and had been married 22 yrs. I can only find 3 of them Roger, his brother Arthur Croome Riley and Bevan Cuthbert Riley (Lieut. died 5.12.926) Neither Edward or his wife appear on the 1901 census. Roger and Arthur do but Cuthbert doesn't so where have they gone to as Annie was probably expecting her fourth child???

No trace on passenger lists...yet

Regards Barry

[The Inspector]

Last One

Post 3, Martin.. the records show the name is John SALUSBURY Riley, Steyning, 2b,270 so obviously the right one. Roger's youngest brother...

Regards Barry

1911 Cenus John SALISBURY Riley aged 8yrs, at boarding school, Beech Lane,Leamington, Warwickshire

Edited 8 January , 2016 by The Inspector

[IPT]

Cuthbert doesn't so where have they gone to as Annie was probably expecting her fourth child???

Edward and Cuthbert were at the vicarage in Preston Steyning with a couple of servants looking after them.

[Errol Martyn]

The 'Cadet' probably relates to him being a member of the School's Cadet Force?

Errol

[Guest PaulLWHG]

We have just found this thread, which relates to a story that we have only just got to the bottom of ourselves.  In 2014 we published a book about the 18 men named on the Leek Wootton War Memorial and much of our narrative was based on the parish magazines, written throughout the war by Rev Edward Riley, the Vicar.  In February 1917 the magazine had a black border and he wrote, “In the great sorrow which has fallen upon Mrs.  Riley and myself we gratefully acknowledge the universal sympathy which has been extended towards us. 

“At present the agony is too recent to permit of my referring to its details.  Sufficient to say that our youngest boy passed away in a crowded hour of adventure, and that his eldest brother, who is now so seriously injured, would have given his life for him.”

At the time we were unable to identify this incident.  To illustrate the effect of the War on some of the survivors, we followed the story of Cuthbert Bevan Riley, Rev Riley’s third son, who was invalided out of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment and suffered ill-health until his death aged 30 in 1925 at a rest home in Hadlow Down near Uckfield.  His Death Certificate records the cause of death as, “Chloral poisoning from overdose of Bromidia self administered to procure sleep.  Misadventure.”

Recently a great-granddaughter of Rev Riley and his wife (who was known as Maud) visited the Church in Leek Wootton and has subsequently sent us a newspaper clipping (that is not available online) of his obituary.  It says, “Four of his sons served in the War, and John S Riley, his 15-year-old boy (who was a cadet in the R.N.) was killed when flying with his brother, Lieut. Roger Riley, R.A.F.”

We have since found him on the 1911 Census at Beech Lawn (a boys prep school in Leamington Spa), but he was born after the 1901 Census and as a Cadet, of course, he did not appear on the CWGC website, hence we were unable to find him back in 2014.

We have just received his Death Certificate, which reads: “Nineteenth January 1917, The Hospital R.N. College, Dartmouth U.D. / John Salusbury Riley / Male / 15 years / Naval Cadet / Shock result of injuries received through being thrown out of an aeroplane subsequently wrecked in the Grounds of the Royal Naval College, Dartmouth / Certificate received from Arthur M. Dawson Coroner for Dartmouth District.  Inquest held 20^th January 1917.”

We cannot find anything in the newspapers of the time (presumably because the incident occurred on military property during wartime?), but would like to gather as much information as we can on this episode and would be grateful for pointers to any further material, e.g. how can we access the 28 Sqn Casualty Cards mentioned by quemerford?

Leek Wootton History Group