bedfordyeoman Posted 22 November , 2004 Share Posted 22 November , 2004 All, I have the QSA/KSA and 1914 star named to Pte H Winter 4391 9th Lancers. Said gentleman was killed in action whilst serving as Pte L/12775 with the Bedfordshire Yeomanry attd 19th Hussars during a cavalry charge at Serain on 8th October 1918. He appears on the QSA and KSA medal rolls. CWGC has him as Harry of 51 Strahan Rd, Bow E3 aged 36 and married to Emma Alice. SWGW has him as Harry born Canterbury, Kent. He has 2 MICs. One to H Winter 4391 9 lancers for the 1914 star only - theatre of war France from 19.8.14. No remarks on the MIC. No clasp entitlement shown on MIC or medal roll, which shows the 1914 star as being awarded as late as May 1922. Second MIC shows Henry Winter and the following regiments, in this order: The Queen's Rgt Pte 22414, 9 Lancers 9L/4391, Bedf Yeo L/12775, Corps of Lancers L/12775. Entitlement is BWM/VM on the Bedfordshire Yeomanry roll. No remarks on the MIC. There is no GRO record for 6 years either side of 1882 of a Harry or Henry Winter born in the Canterbury area. He has no service records in the WO series. He and Emma are recorded on the electoral roll for Bow at 51 Strahan Rd from 1912. There is no record in the GRO of a Harry or Henry Winter marrying an Emma from 1912 save for one couple in Norwich. It would be a costly exercise, I think, to get a search done before 1911. Whilst the 9th Lancers museum has a record of him being invalided out of South Africa in 1902, as H Winter, he does not appear on any of the nominal rolls thereafter. I haven't yet checked the 9th Lancers war diary or gone through the local newspapers at Tower Hamlets. Are there any genealogists out there who can tell me how I can get to the bottom of this one without spending large amounts of cash on marriage searches ? (I assume here that the marriage certificate will show age and family details etc). It looks to me as if H was discharged from the 9th lancers and either transferred or re-enlisted into the Queen's Rgt, later transferred again to the Beds Yeomanry. That's he's Henry but known as Harry, as frequently happens. Or it's a completely different chap and some clerk got the details mixed up. Possibilities are endless ! All the best David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 23 November , 2004 Share Posted 23 November , 2004 David Here's the family in 1891...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 23 November , 2004 Share Posted 23 November , 2004 But by 1901, mother Eliza was widowed and living with the in-laws (image below). Harry isn't at home by this time, but you have already suggested he was in South Africa. I have found an entry for a marriage in Chesterfield, Derbyshire in Q2/1902 between Harry Winter and Emma Parker. It's Vol 7b, Page 1367. Obviously don't know if this is your man without getting the certificate. Hope this is of some use. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedfordyeoman Posted 24 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2004 Stephen, It looks as though I am now a long way towards unravelling the mystery. As stated, I had looked for Harry Winter some years either side of 1882, so either I missed it or his birth isn't registered. I have a long list of Harry and Henry Winter marriages from 1900 to 1912 so at least I can ditch the Henrys. Do you know of a quick/cheap way of obtaining certificates to check ? I understand that I can get a check done for about £3 a time but there are quite a number !! Out of curiosity, how did you manage to find the 1891 census entry so quickly and the fiches for 1891 and 1901 ?! I am extremely grateful for your help. I think I shall have to list all the men who are giving me problems if I can get answers from pals this quickly. All the best David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsms Posted 25 November , 2004 Share Posted 25 November , 2004 As well as being online at the Gov't website, 1901 census along with 1891 and an increasing amount of 1871 census' are online at Ancestry.com With the exchange rate as it is at present it's about £8/month to subscribe to the UK info. Downloads are free so if you're doing a lot it is a cheaper option, and the indexing is just as good. 1881 census and quite a lot of BMD info can be found here cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedfordyeoman Posted 26 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Mike, Thanks for that. I might just subscribe ! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedfordyeoman Posted 30 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 30 November , 2004 Just a line to advise that I spent some time looking for Harry Winter's birth in the GRO indices but still couldn't find it. I thought I would then try Maud Winter's as she was also supposedly born in Canterbury. Still no joy for the period in question. Tried the 1881 census but nothing. I could understand one unregistered birth, possibly even 2, but trying to avoid the census as well ?? Knowing that the father, Joseph, had died before 1901, I set about finding his death. Registered in 1894 but, helpfully, as Joseph Thomas H Winter. I then thought I would try to find a marriage in the 1870s for Joseph and Eliza. Worked my way through 1876 and 1877 before it hit me..... what if Joseph and Eliza had not married until after the 1881 census ? It would mean that Eliza, Maud and Harry would probably have a different surname. So I started at 1883 and, second fiche in, there it was - Joseph was married in Shoreditch in the September quarter. Checked BMD for an 1883 marriage to Eliza in the 3rd quarter 1883 and there she was, Eliza Mary Eaton. A swift check of the 1881 census shows Eliza aged 27, an unmarried mother living with small daughter Maud at 23 Chantry Lane, Canterbury. No Harry, so he must be born post census. Couldn't find him in BMD or Ancestry but I'm closing in fast. Many thanks again to Steve Nulty for providing the key to all of this. I'll confirm the details when I have them and, if appropriate, write to CWGC to tell them that Harry's age is wrong in their list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 1 December , 2004 Share Posted 1 December , 2004 David Great news, and well done. There's nothing like that feeling when it all comes together, is there. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedfordyeoman Posted 3 December , 2004 Author Share Posted 3 December , 2004 All, Just to round off this piece, I can confirm that Harry Winter was born Harry Harrison Eaton in the second quarter of 1881, thus making him 37 when he was killed in action. I have narrowed down his marriage to 3 or 4 candidates so should be able to obtain a birth and marriage certificate soon. That's probably as much as I will achieve unless I can trace his family. All the best David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fuller Posted 4 December , 2004 Share Posted 4 December , 2004 Nice one David Been following this; just regret that I cant help out mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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