Ben Giffard Posted 26 December , 2015 Share Posted 26 December , 2015 Hi Everyone, I'm working on identifying as much as I can about this photo - so location, date and some of the other participants. It shows a group of staff officers in Belgium in Sept / October 1914 and the latest it can have been taken is 31 October 1914 as the figure on the right facing the camera is a relative - Capt Robert 'Bob' Giffard - who was wounded in the shelling of Chateau Hooge that day and died the next. This is almost certainly the last photo of him and what I'm trying to determine is where it was taken - maybe even at Hooge itself? - when and who the other parties are. Bob had been ADC to General Samuel H Lomax - who was also severely wounded in the bombardment - since 1910 and I wonder if the figure in the distance in the centre is Lomax himself? There is a slight similarity to photos I have seen on line. Bob was only promoted to Captain in October 1914 so the single Lieutenant's band on his sleeve may not be indicative that this photo was taken before that. He is talking to someone who appears to be a Major. A Major George Paley was killed in the shelling and I am sure other majors would have been present. The reverse of the photo is printed 'Post Card' and then divided into Communication and Address Only. The writing on the front is hard to make out other than being signed Bob. The next line looks like a combination of letters and numbers - a date or reference? The writing is not on my copy but actually part of the photo suggesting that this is a photo of a photo. So I'd be very grateful for any info, tips, identifications or suggestions. Best wishes Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelcave Posted 26 December , 2015 Share Posted 26 December , 2015 I would suggest that it is not Hooge Chateau. I am away from my books at the moment, but I have a couple of pre war photographs of the Chateau and area for Jack Sheldon's and mine forthcoming Menin Road 1914 and where the shell fell was on the western side of the chateau buildings, on the artists' 'colony' that Baron de Vinck had built some years earlier, in 1896. This seems to have been well away from outbuildings, such as the one to the rear of the photograph. Your identification of Lomax might well be correct - but again, need to check this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Giffard Posted 26 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 26 December , 2015 A fellow sleuth (William Thompson) has read the inscription as Sept 1914. This certainly fits best. Assuming this is correct then the field is thrown open. Bob's boss, General Samuel Lomax, arrived in Belgium during the aftermath of the battle of Mons, engaging in the battle of Le Cateau - 26 August 1914. Then the battle of the Marne and the counter-attack at the battle of the Aisne 12 - 15 Sept 1914. Then in October comes the First Battle of Ypres and it was during this that they set up HQ in Hooge. So assuming the note does say Sept 1914 then it could be anywhere along that route. So my search may have broadened out a bit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelcave Posted 27 December , 2015 Share Posted 27 December , 2015 I would suggest that most likely would be the Aisne - mainly on the premise that they were fairly well established there for some time. But that is all it is - a suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 27 December , 2015 Admin Share Posted 27 December , 2015 Where was the 1 Div HQ during the Aisne battle ? Near Bourg et Comin possibly? The map in the OH isn't that clear and I don't have the map volume. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 27 December , 2015 Admin Share Posted 27 December , 2015 If it is the Aisne 1st Div HQ in the photo is either Bourg et Comin or Paissy Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Giffard Posted 31 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 31 December , 2015 I would suggest that it is not Hooge Chateau. I am away from my books at the moment, but I have a couple of pre war photographs of the Chateau and area for Jack Sheldon's and mine forthcoming Menin Road 1914 and where the shell fell was on the western side of the chateau buildings, on the artists' 'colony' that Baron de Vinck had built some years earlier, in 1896. This seems to have been well away from outbuildings, such as the one to the rear of the photograph. Your identification of Lomax might well be correct - but again, need to check this. Nigel, Many thanks - I think you are right! The scribble at the bottom is likely to read Bob, and then "Sept 1914" but with the "4" missing off to the right. I don't know enough about the retreat from Mons and all that then followed up to the first Battle of Ypres but I would be amazed if Gen Lomax had been to Hooge a full month before the shelling. So it seems likely this photo was taken at one of the 1st Division's HQs during Sept 1914 but I expect there were a number of these. Given everyone in the photo looks quite relaxed I imagine it must have been taken in one of the gaps between battles (Le Cateau, Marne, Aisne). Any suggestions as to what would be the next step in narrowing this down? Many thanks! Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 1 January , 2016 Admin Share Posted 1 January , 2016 Ben I did suggest likely locations for 1 Div HQ above Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelcave Posted 1 January , 2016 Share Posted 1 January , 2016 As Michelle points out, she has given the likely HQs on the Aisne: the Aisne most likely because the Division was there for some time (at least relative to the hectic first weeks of the war) before the move to what was to become the Salient. Even there, I do not think there was all that much time to be taking snaps! In any case, you have a September 1914 date. There were no British troops in the Ypres area prior to October 1914. So, the first step is to check the possibilities mentioned by Michelle, tho' of course the 1st Div WD might well be specific as regards locations throughout September. Then a matter of maps and getting on to the ground. A problem, however, could be that the relevant building got obliterated in later fighting: the Aisne was far from a quiet part of the Front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Giffard Posted 10 May , 2023 Author Share Posted 10 May , 2023 On 01/01/2016 at 01:05, Michelle Young said: Ben I did suggest likely locations for 1 Div HQ above Michelle Hi Michelle, My apologies for not replying to you before and I see it is some seven years since you posted your reference to Bourg et Comin or Paissy. I will certainly follow up to see if the photo was taken at either of these two places although - of course - the buildings may well have been destroyed or demolished since then. So thanks again for the suggestions and apologies from me for taking so long to reply! Best wishes, Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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