dunmore1774 Posted 18 December , 2015 Share Posted 18 December , 2015 Hello, I just picked this one up and it has me puzzled. Pics follow, but here's what we have No rim. Smaller bales and the smaller bale "straps" Rear heat stamp appears to be BS 30 (B over the S) for Beardsmore. Non-magnetic metal. Wavy, striations in the metal. It has a second pattern liner with red Brodie Patent number stamp. The chinstrap buckle looks like those of the first pattern, but minus the prong and flipped over. It appears to be identified to a soldier, written in pencil inside the oilcloth "Pte. H. Bourne / B Co 8th Batt / 379204" With this, I believe it appears to be a "true" rimless Brodie, not Type A or B, but the early War Office Pattern, dating around to early 1916. Question #1 As for the paint, does it appear to be original? According to Marcus Cotton's article "British Steel Helmets, 1915-1918" he states that these early manganese were painted a shiny blue-gray. He shows a color pic of one of these and this seems similar I (although the picture isn't the best for color in my copy of the article). He also shows a b/w pic of an Australian soldier with this "early shiny paint". He also mentions that soldiers painted most of these and the paint was soon replaced with a more suitable color There is no evidence of any other paint color underneath the shiny grey on this helmet. The paint has been worn down to the metal at the area of the stamp (from a previous owner). And, most interestingly, completely covers the helmet, inside and out. The paint is underneath the liner and the leather chinstrap inside. It's all done very neatly, with no drips on the liner. It appears to have been done in the factory. Question #2 Who is Private H. Bourne and what unit is he from? I believe the pencil ID is original, it looks very convincing to me. At first I thought he might be an American (this helmet surfaced in the USA). However, note it is "Pte" for private and "Pvt" as done in the US military. Also, the use of 8th Battalion is not really American. I would expect Division or Regiment over here. All thoughts are welcome and no offense would be taken, even if you think it's a gawdy parade helmet done by hippies in 1969 Thanks! Doug more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunmore1774 Posted 18 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2015 I have more pics, but I seem to be barred from adding them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o j kirby Posted 18 December , 2015 Share Posted 18 December , 2015 Hi, I have an early sharp edge helmet, two piece chinstrap, with the inside a similar silvery colour, and an apple green painted exterior. I will try to check it for markings. Owain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aef1917 Posted 18 December , 2015 Share Posted 18 December , 2015 It's a War Office Pattern helmet with original six-tongue liner replaced with a second-pattern liner. It was likely sanded down to bare metal and repainted when the liner was replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 18 December , 2015 Share Posted 18 December , 2015 To me, the shade of grey looks very similar to the shade of grey used to turn locomotives out from the workshops. Often referred to as 'photographic grey,' it enabled a better finish of the photograph. Bearing in mind early helmets were painted in an apple-green, it's not hard to imagine that there was a point when it was unclear what shade to paint them. By painting them silvery-grey, it possibly reinforced the fact that these were now steel helmets; the grey being a readily available colour in large quantities as well as being a fairly neutral colour. I believe it is in Manning's 'Her Privates We' that you can read a comment about the turn out of the men and the way the helmets were regarded as very smart because of their shine! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy 60th Posted 18 December , 2015 Share Posted 18 December , 2015 A lot of the Canadian helmets were painted grey but this particular one seems to be in a much more silvery grey colour. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johntanner Posted 18 December , 2015 Share Posted 18 December , 2015 Only one man with that number comes up in the medal rolls: Name: Henry Pervin Regiment or Corps: Durham Light Infantry, Labour Corps Regimental Number: 46402, 379204 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunmore1774 Posted 19 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 19 December , 2015 Thanks for the input so far. I'm wondering if this is a CEF, as mentioned as a possibility above. I found this helmet with a similar gray paint job and the same maker and heat number, it's a CEF Motorized MG helmet http://www.emedals.com/a-first-war-mark-i-motorized-machine-gun-corps-helmet Still nothing on the ID (and I still can't add more pics ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunmore1774 Posted 19 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 19 December , 2015 Alright, just found this!!! Harry Coute Bourne service number 2379204, CEF His "War Service Gratuity form" says he originally served with the 1st Depot Battalion as a private (enlisted 1/7/1918) His discharge certificate (7/25/1919) states 1st Depot Battalion, Manitoba Regiment, CEF enlisted in Winnipeg, states he served in England and France with the 8th Canadian Battalion (90th Rifles). His papers are available at the Canadian Archives, I can't wait to pull it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aef1917 Posted 21 December , 2015 Share Posted 21 December , 2015 I'm wondering if this is a CEF, as mentioned as a possibility above. I found this helmet with a similar gray paint job and the same maker and heat number, it's a CEF Motorized MG helmet http://www.emedals.com/a-first-war-mark-i-motorized-machine-gun-corps-helmet That CMMG helmet is the standard 3rd Division grey, which is quite different than the silver on your example. The only thing I have ever seen with a finish close to yours is a Canadian Grenadier Guards Mk. I that was painted silver and had a painted badge and battle honours. It is highly unlikely that yours is the original finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunmore1774 Posted 21 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 21 December , 2015 Well, whatever it is, I like him and will keep him the way he is Thanks for the input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 22 December , 2015 Share Posted 22 December , 2015 Well, whatever it is, I like him and will keep him the way he is Thanks for the input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM72 Posted 27 February , 2023 Share Posted 27 February , 2023 Darker green drab used in WW1? There seems to be a couple major variants of paint for Great War MkIs: 1. Apple Green 2. Brown drab/service drab 3. AEF green/brown 4. A darker green drab color? Need help on this one. Any contemporary paints (British Standard, NCS, RAL, Federal Standard, or brands from major paint labels) which get close to this color? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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