Simon Furnell Posted 21 November , 2004 Share Posted 21 November , 2004 Evening all,and i hope someone can help. Sadly,last Thursday,my Grandad,Joseph Curry,passed away. He was nearly 87 years old,and was an only child,or so everybody thought until yesterday. My mum was at his house,yesterday,when one of his neighbours came over and started chatting to her. During the conversation,he said what a terrible shame it was,that Gangs sister had been killed in a Zeppelin raid,when she was 2 years old!. Mums reply was,"What sister?". He had never mentioned,to my Mum or Aunt,anything about having a sister who had died,and had also not told them that he was injured in the same raid,by coals from the fire as he was asleep in his pram!! I do have some clues,which my Grandad left,in a small memoire that he had written,and left for me and my Brother. He was born in Southgate,North London,on December 4th,1917. His father was Walter Curry,who was a Herdsman and came from the Leeds area,and his Mother was Margaret(Maggie)Curry,also from Leeds. My Great-grandfather was in charge of a herd of Jersey cattle,on a farm that used to be on the site of what is now Southgate underground station. Gang says that the coals hit him just above the right eye,and a local doctor treated him,leaving a small scar. Having dived on the net as soon as i got home,i have learned that it was more than likely to have been a German Gotha raid,and if he was in a pram,near a fire,it was sometime between his birth and say,late February,1918. Having said that,the raids did run until May 1918,so maybe it was later. Looking at the London A to Z,Southgate is not far from Palmers Green and Edmonton. Even now,there doesn't look like there is much there,but it is not far from the countryside,which is always good news,but seems a strange place to send a bomber. All of the above info,i have learned in the last 6 hours or so,but there are 2 questions that i have not been able to find answers to The date the bombing raid happened,and what was his sisters name was? It seems that the event was so traumatic for the family,that they quickly moved back North,and not a lot else was ever mentioned about the event,until now. He knew i loved this sort of thing,detective work(always thought i would make a good police officer),and i like to think he that he left this little mystery for me to solve. Any ideas,chaps?. Many thanks,in advance,and all the best. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 21 November , 2004 Share Posted 21 November , 2004 Simon I have just started making a database of all raid casualties. If you can tell me at what address your Grandfather was living, I should be able to tell you when his sister was killed (and what time the bomb was dropped). I am fairly sure, though that as this raid was in the North of London, that it took place either on 7/8th March 1918 or the 19/20th May 1918. Both were aeroplane attacks. The last Airship raid on London was 19/20th October 1917 (and south of the river). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 21 November , 2004 Share Posted 21 November , 2004 I'm fairly sure it must have been the raid of 7th March. Most of the bombs were dropped between North Finchley and Whetstone. That is just west of Southgate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 21 November , 2004 Share Posted 21 November , 2004 If I am right, your family were living in the vicinity of Totteridge Lane, Whetstone....?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Furnell Posted 21 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2004 Many thanks,Racing. Bit late now,but will have a look at the map in the morning. Gang would have been about 3 months old at the time,so probably fits. They obviously weren't aiming for anything specific,and may have bugged out of a raid,and be just getting rid of the load on the way home. Thanks again,and all the best. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Furnell Posted 22 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 22 November , 2004 Hello Racing. I have a bit of a can of worms here,and you have got me thinking,and many thanks for that. I had a quick look at the map,and the distance to Southgate from Finchley/Whetstone,isn't all that far in aerial bombing terms,probably no more than a few seconds,if that. I have no name's,of the farm,or the owner,but i do have a location,and can tell you that the farm had a Jersey Herd. The site of the farm,was on what is now Southgate Underground station,which is somewhere towards the end of Crown Lane,and it's junction with Ashfield Park,today,and near a large roundabout,which seems to be the junction for Chaseside/The Bourne/High Street. There are playing fields,a sport centre,and a school nearby,which i suppose would have been farmland in those days,and Southgate Technical College,and a suburb called Osidge. The only other thing that i noticed,when looking at what he had written,was that the bombing reference came after his Christening(February the 13th,1918,at Christchurch,Southgate),and i can't believe he would still be in his pram,by the fire,in May,so i think you are spot on with the date. Many thanks for all your help so far,Racing. All the best. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 22 November , 2004 Share Posted 22 November , 2004 This may help. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Furnell Posted 22 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 22 November , 2004 Evening 1066. Many thanks for this. Any idea of the date? I found a map for 1881,and it looks quite a bit different to this one,but it is the same area. The fields have all merged together,into one big farm,and it looks very similar to the area,that is now a school,and playing fields. Cheers for passing it on. All the best. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 22 November , 2004 Share Posted 22 November , 2004 This is also 1881 OS edition but dont know which scale. Its from : http://www.old-maps.co.uk/ Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 22 November , 2004 Share Posted 22 November , 2004 Well your Great Grandfather may have worked on the farm, where Southgate station is, but your Grandfather (and his sister) were at home. Only two bombs were dropped that night, on Whetstone. The 50 kg bomb was a dud. The 100 kg bomb, which caused all the casualties, fell at the back of 16 Totteridge Lane. It's marked in red at the top of the map. The force damaged houses in Naylor Road, and Birley Road. So your Grandparents must have been living, or staying, in a small radius from the marked position. You can follow the route that I believe your Grandfather walked, to get to the farm - up Russell Lane and Osidge Lane. As you can see from the old map above, there were footpaths which would have made the journey quicker. It is literally just 1 mile from 16 Totteridge Lane to Southgate Station (about 15 minutes walk to the marked position at the bottom of this map). Now here's an extra bit of information. It wasn't a Gotha raid. The aeroplanes were the massive, and aptly named 'Giants.' The Zeppelin-Staaken Riesenflugzeug "Giant" bomber was a four engined tractor biplane with enclosed cabin that may have been inspired by the Russian Murometz. The Giant certainly deserved its title – its wing span of 42 metres (138 feet) was only one metre (3 feet) shorter than Boeing's famous B29 Superfortress of World War II fame, and its tailplane was roughly the same size as a Sopwith Pup. I should, if you want, probably be able to tell you which of the three Giants, that flew over London that night, was responsible. I don't know how much you want to know...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Furnell Posted 23 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2004 Hello Racing. Just spotted this,on my way out of the door to work. I am after the name of his sister,as no one knew she exsisted until last Saturday. She was 2(approx)and would have had the surname Curry. This is all very interesting stuff.I had never heard of the Giant bomber before today,and thank you for passing this on. Better be off or i will be late(though i would much rather spend the rest of the day in front of the computer). All the best. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Furnell Posted 24 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2004 Evening all. I have an address at last which was,on the 8th of January,1918,The Cottage,Brookhouse,Southgate,East Barnet Valley,U.D,in the county of Hertfordshire. More than likely,they moved in the 3 months before the raid,and this was why my Grandads sister was killed in this raid. Do you think it is worth a search of the N.A,to find her name,and can you just look,without buying?. I am still on a mission to find her name. Thanks chaps. All the best. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pete Wood Posted 24 November , 2004 Share Posted 24 November , 2004 Simon, I don't think her name will be found at the NA. In fact, I don't believe she was recorded (by the military) as having died. The official stastics say one child was injured (no name mentioned). The reports were made a few days after the event. So she may have died of complications, rather than being killed outright. I don't have her name on my database. But you should easily be able to find out - and it should cost you under £5 to do it. Go to http://www.1837online.com and search through the first quarter (and maybe second if she died a few weeks after the raid) of 1918 for the name Curry. You know the district in which she died, and you know how old she was. It should enable you to work out her first name. If you have problems, start a new thread and one of the genealogists might be able to help further. There are a few on this forum who helped me enormously - see the 'Manning Pike' thread in Utterly off Topic. Best of luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Furnell Posted 24 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2004 Many thanks,Racing. Off into the world wide web. All the best. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted 24 November , 2004 Share Posted 24 November , 2004 Simon… Dolphin posted some useful information about the Zeppelin-Staaken in a thread in this forum which started on 29th July 2004 entitled “Large Aircraft Identification”. (I hope you take Racing Teapots' offer up as well!) Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 25 November , 2004 Share Posted 25 November , 2004 Simon There's a good account of the 7/8 March raid from a German participant, Hauptmann Schoeller of Rfa 501 (Rfa = Reisenflugzeugabteilung, or Giant aircraft section), the unit that operated the Giant bombers, in G W Haddow & P M Grosz's The German Giants, ISBN 370 00037 4. My edition was printed in 1969, which I suppose makes it a fairly old book, but a library may be able to obtain a copy. It's a well illustrated publication which will probably tell you all you ever wanted to know about these remarkable aeroplanes. Regards Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Furnell Posted 26 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 26 November , 2004 Evening all. I have checked 1837 online(great site,Racing,and well worth the fiver),but have found no 2 year olds that died in the London area,in the first 2 quarters of 1918,with the surname Curry. There doesn't seem to be a refined search,so i may have to try loads of different names,before i get there,but i spent an hour there tonight,for about 50p!! Many thanks for the reference,Gareth,to the German pilot,and his squadron. Sounds like they were a bit of an experimental Squadron,which doesn't surprise me at this time of the war. Everyone had to get ready for the next one,so it seems. This book,may well be worth a search for,on the good old world wide web,and if i find a copy,it is going to cost me a fortune,in DIY,and flowers. I'll live. Many thanks,chaps,and i will check up on your posting about the "Giant",Dolphin. All the best. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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