Bavarian Bayonets

[motojosh]

L15 S98/05 a.A by Amberg and a Simson Greek 1903/14 re-hilted for Bavaria. Chape on the 03 is a replacement, but looks to have been with the piece a long time.

[jscott]

An interesting pair - is the Green 03 a form of ersatz? Don't think I've ever seen one before. Does it have Bavarian markings on it?

Cheers, Jonathan

[trajan]

Very nice pair and a very, very nice Greek one there!

Funny story behind the Greek one, Jonathan... These T-backed ones are the Y.1914, ordered from Simson to fit the MS 1903/1914 rifle, but when the GW began it seems that very few (if any - I'm still researching this point) had actually been delivered to Greece, and after Greece declared or indicated neutrality (can't remember which), they were re-hilted to fit the Gew.98 and went to Bavaria instead. So, Greece finally got its Y.1914 bayonets after the GW from Italy - I think in the 1930's? At any rate, during the Greco-Turkish War of 1922-1923, the Greeks were still using the short Y.1903 bayonets (of which I have a thread running), and converted versions of the Greek 'Gras' (also a thread on these). Never seen a real or a converted Y.1914 yet, and so Josh, it is a nice one to have. I have the production numbers for these Y.1914 somewhere (I think!), but the official Bavarian designation was S.14, griechische Bajonett or S.14 griechische Modell - I have a copy of the official designation somewhere but now have to go to dinner...

Julian

[motojosh]

An interesting pair - is the Green 03 a form of ersatz? Don't think I've ever seen one before. Does it have Bavarian markings on it?

Cheers, Jonathan

Outside of the occasional unit markings found on these the only Bavarian markings are the Bavarian style of K fraktur on the scabbard throat and pommel.

Very nice pair and a very, very nice Greek one there!

Funny story behind the Greek one, Jonathan... These T-backed ones are the Y.1914, ordered from Simson to fit the MS 1903/1914 rifle, but when the GW began it seems that very few (if any - I'm still researching this point) had actually been delivered to Greece, and after Greece declared or indicated neutrality (can't remember which), they were re-hilted to fit the Gew.98 and went to Bavaria instead. So, Greece finally got its Y.1914 bayonets after the GW from Italy - I think in the 1930's? At any rate, during the Greco-Turkish War of 1922-1923, the Greeks were still using the short Y.1903 bayonets (of which I have a thread running), and converted versions of the Greek 'Gras' (also a thread on these). Never seen a real or a converted Y.1914 yet, and so Josh, it is a nice one to have. I have the production numbers for these Y.1914 somewhere (I think!), but the official Bavarian designation was S.14, griechische Bajonett or S.14 griechische Modell - I have a copy of the official designation somewhere but now have to go to dinner...

Julian

An interesting history on these bayonets. In Mery's ersatz book he states Simson & Suhl was to furnish 8,000 of these conversions, but only 2,416 of them ended up being delivered.

[trajan]

Jonathan and Josh,

I asked a Greek collector about the numbers of Y.1914 made and supplied to Greece and never got an entirely clear answer...

For the original Greek form of the bayonet see either my post no. 6 at: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=210221 or the original from which this one of JPS' came, post 12 at: http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?166857-German-WWI-issue-Bayonets.

A Bavarian Kriegsministerium Merkblatt, Nr. 44/15 issued 31 December 1915 gives a description of what we all know as the S.14 and then follows that with:"S.G.14 (griechisches Modell): Schmale, sich stark verjüngende klinge von mittlerer Länge mit starkem Rücken - Holzschalen mit Griffschrauben - Stahlscheide", which I reckon is roughly: "Narrow and strongly tapering blade of a medium length with a strong (i.e., thick/wide) back - wooden grips with grip-screws - steel scabbard" So, it is indeed a S.G.14 (griechisches Modell)!

Williams, vol 2, p. 568-570, shows the type, although he wrongly classifies it as a Greek Y1903 - that was a short knife-bayonet - and on p,570 he shows one mounted on a Gew.98.

Julian