Brucenaismith Posted 22 November , 2015 Share Posted 22 November , 2015 Can any one identify the piece of leather/cloth located on the centre top of each great roll? Each mount has in the photo has one. Is it specific to Signal men? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 28 November , 2015 Share Posted 28 November , 2015 Hi Bruce, Do you have a date for the photo? It appears to be taken in Australia. The horses girth straps are a non-standard pattern. They are using the older style "butt buckets" as saddle rifle buckets rather than the full rifle case type bucket - these were widely used in the 1890s and Boer War. They are not using the 1902 reversible bit. Two horses have two neck ropes, one a manila type and one appears to be a cotton type. (ie one stiff and brown, one soft and white). The P1903 pouches on the waist belts are the flapped type, not the top opening type. It would be fascinating to know if the had the carriers for the signal flags on the left side of the saddle. My immediate reaction is that this photo has been taken between the wars, possibly even late 30s. And that equipment has been 'modified" based on WW1 experiences. The wrap around the "great roll" appears to be a rectangular piece of heavy leather, presumably to protect the canvas tent section from excessive wear. Cheers Ross T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brucenaismith Posted 1 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 1 December , 2015 Unfortunately I don't have a date, but the presence of the Mk IV rifle bucket would suggest pre-1917 as it pretty much disappear from service by then, even for training. The cavalry rifle bucket wasn't in general service with the AIF until late 1918. Of the two neck ropes, one is a toggle rope. When these are joined together they make a ground line for tethering the horses. The heel hobble and peg, shown on the cantle of the saddles was used in conjunction with the ground line. Non service bits is common among light horses where they brought along their own horses, these when suitable were purchased by the Army. The light horse used both types of waist belt pouches, the flap type holds 10 rounds and the top opening type holds 15, this allowed another 50 rounds to be carried around the waist. When both were worn it was common for the 10 round pouch to be closest to the buckle. Yeah the piece of leather doesn't appear on any equipment issues so it may have been particular to this group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 1 December , 2015 Share Posted 1 December , 2015 Hi Bruce, Do you have a date for the photo? It appears to be taken in Australia Cheers Ross T I agree, the trees look like Australian eucalyptus (gum) trees. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromelles Posted 22 February Share Posted 22 February (edited) Some time ago I asked about a few items of mounted equipment that I was unsure of, one of the bits was - Protectors, cape or cloak, Mk II I am thinking this may be it. As to the likely time frame this photo was taken, the use of the early bucket and the central man wearing the GS Haversack and the lack of saddle wallets would point this as being early war. Dan Edited 29 February by Fromelles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reese williams Posted 23 February Share Posted 23 February @Chasemuseum Take a closer look at the girths. Whatever the padded piece is seems to be added to the girth, not made as a part of the girth. Presumably extra protection of some sort. I've never seen it before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 23 February Share Posted 23 February 3 hours ago, reese williams said: I've never seen it before. neither have I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Hauraki KIA KAHA Posted 24 February Share Posted 24 February The flags bucket was designed to attach to the Rifle bucket. so the must rifle buckets should have been introduced early on. As has been said they are using the "butt buckets" . and no flag bucket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromelles Posted 24 February Share Posted 24 February 7 minutes ago, 6th Hauraki KIA KAHA said: The flags bucket was designed to attach to the Rifle bucket. so the must rifle buckets should have been introduced early on. As has been said they are using the "butt buckets" . and no flag bucket. According to the Table showing the Articles of Equipment to be taken abroad by a Light Horse Regiment (AIF Order No.17, para 84), the LH were only issued the Mk IV rifle bucket (as pictured), each Regiment being issued 502 (1 per rifle), plus an additional 12 (4 per Squadron). Photographic evidence also supports this being the case. The Table also states that 15 signalling flag bucket would be taken abroad, however doesn't state which Mark of bucket they are. The Mk IV signal flag bucket, which I believe you may be referring to, could be used with and without the rifle bucket, however was meant to be placed on the off side, which isn't the case in this photo. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Hauraki KIA KAHA Posted 24 February Share Posted 24 February (edited) Yes, so it is MK IV thanks also was the heliograph stand bucket designated MK1V? Here are my examples. A couple of photos with the rifle bucket and without. Edited 24 February by 6th Hauraki KIA KAHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromelles Posted 24 February Share Posted 24 February Fantastic examples you have! The tripod stand bucket is Mk III Would you (or anyone else) know anything about the Protectors, cape or cloak, that I mentioned above? Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Hauraki KIA KAHA Posted 24 February Share Posted 24 February Wow, thanks for this information I have not been able to locate before. No sorry this is the first time I have heard of this, I think you are correct about it being related to the top image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromelles Posted 24 February Share Posted 24 February 16 minutes ago, 6th Hauraki KIA KAHA said: Wow, thanks for this information I have not been able to locate before. No sorry this is the first time I have heard of this, I think you are correct about it being related to the top image. You're most welcome, I'm thinking I likely got it off someone here on the forum. I am trying to chase down a few items of saddlery I'm not sure of, the 'protector' being one of them, the original image above seems to fit the bill, but I want to be sure.....the search continues Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromelles Posted 1 March Share Posted 1 March On 23/02/2024 at 22:18, reese williams said: @Chasemuseum Take a closer look at the girths. Whatever the padded piece is seems to be added to the girth, not made as a part of the girth. Presumably extra protection of some sort. I've never seen it before. On 24/02/2024 at 02:16, Chasemuseum said: neither have I When I saw the below photo I knew I'd seen a similar 'double pad' configuration used on the surcingle, after a bit more rummaging about I found a reference to 'surcingle pads' and after a bit more searching I found these examples on facebook, they show a very similar issue item as what's shown in use (although these are post war dated). I'm not a horsey person, so don't know their official use, but they certainly look like fit the bill. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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