Khaki Posted 21 November , 2015 Share Posted 21 November , 2015 For some reason that is now forgotten I have identified this bayonet as Portuguese, maybe Great War (Africa) theatre, in the photographs it appears to have a straight blade, but it is actually slightly yataghan in style, I think the blade is about 18.5 inches in length and for about the last 4 inches it is double edged. The blade is engraved Steyr 1886 on the spine just short of the guard and is in script similar to the French method of engraving. Wooden grips held with two steel rivets and washers and what appears to be a small OE over a larger WG. No other markings that can be seen, I have spent many hours working on the blade as it had the appearance of having been cleaned on a moving tank tread. Oh yeah, the muzzle ring measures 15mm. The scabbard which is not pictured is the next project and just needs the roof paint cleaned off. khaki pictures next post, sorry hit the wrong button Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 21 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2015 . thanks for viewing khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 21 November , 2015 Share Posted 21 November , 2015 Well, I don't know why you thought it was Portuguese but - although outside my field - it does look to be a Portuguese M.1885/1886. I gather it fitted the Guedes Rifle and the Kropatscheck they had. The length, and OEWG on the ricasso fits with that ID, as does the Steyr 1886. Steel scabbard with a funny looking frog stud? Double check the MRD: I understand that these were used by Germany on the Gew.88, but those examples had the MRD reamed out part-way to 17.5. Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 21 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2015 What I probably should have said was, in Portuguese service, I am guessing now, but a Steyr contract bayonet for the Kropatscheck/Guedes rifles. The muzzle ring measures 15 to 15.5 mm allowing for any deformity. There is no evidence of machining to the ring. Does not fit the G88. (I checked) thanks khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 21 November , 2015 Share Posted 21 November , 2015 Well, if it is not even part-reamed, then to my mind (but it is not my collecting field!), then it is as fully Portuguese as vinho verde! And, as our oldest ally, Portugal was on 'our' side and did join in, even if it did come in a bit late - and likewise in WW2...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 21 November , 2015 Share Posted 21 November , 2015 You guessed right Khaki ... definitely the Portuguese M1886 yataghan that was used on the Kropatschek rifle. Both saw service in Portuguese East Africa during the GW. As you stated they were Austrian made under contract by OEWG in Steyr. Your measured blade length is roughly correct, however your MRD should be more like 16mm. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 22 November , 2015 Share Posted 22 November , 2015 Some more information. As I understand it these were originally designed and ordered for the Guedes-Castro single-shot rifle in 1885, but that rifle order was cancelled and they ended up being fitted to the Kropatschek repeating rifles supplied in 1886. So, strictly speaking they are the Portuguese M.1885, and examples are apparently known with that date inscribed on the blade spine, but the literature (and there is not a lot) provides both the M.1885 and M.1886 designation, so take your pick! The blade and hilt design, BTW, seems to be a linear descendant of the GB P.1853. Oh, and yes, the MRD should be 16 mm., as SS remarked: unless part-reamed out to fit the Gew.88. Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 22 November , 2015 Share Posted 22 November , 2015 One more little point of detail, namely that Portugal had ordered 40,000 of the Guedes-Castro rifle design, but the order was cancelled in April 1886 with no examples entering Portuguese service, so despite some of the bayonets like yours having an 1885 date, perhaps the M.1886 designation is the correct one? A minor point: I am not certain why the designation of the rifle as used in some literature is "Guedes-Castro" when I understand that the design was actually that of a Luis Guedes Dias - but I don't have much in the way of rifle books! However, I did find a nice web-site which explains that after being rejected by Portugual, examples of the rifle went to South Africa, among other places - see: http://angloboerwarmuseum.com/Boer20b_tech_guedes.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 22 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 22 November , 2015 Thanks guys, for all the interesting information, we seem to have it 'nailed down' as to identity, S>S, your correct, the muzzle ring is probably 16mm as the inside is still pretty dirty and I had never gotten around to doing anything about it, as I exhausted myself restoring the blade and went on to other projects. thanks again khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 22 November , 2015 Share Posted 22 November , 2015 Khaki, just FYI here is a pic of the Kropatschek rifle that goes with your bayonet ... or what you need to look for know.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 23 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2015 Thanks, S>S, Its now on the list. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N White Posted 23 November , 2015 Share Posted 23 November , 2015 Good luck finding one that is in condition like the picture. Cracked stocks are the rule on these, and usually the metal has turned quite brown. Certainly on my list as well, but the right one has yet to wander by Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 25 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2015 Good luck finding one that is in condition like the picture. Cracked stocks are the rule on these, and usually the metal has turned quite brown. Certainly on my list as well, but the right one has yet to wander by Thanks, I am very patient, but I do keep looking. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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