ph0ebus Posted 18 November , 2015 Share Posted 18 November , 2015 Hi all,I think I just located what looks like two more German 77mm American field guns here on Long Island that, if they are German, are missing from the inventory on the Passion And Compassion website. I literally drove right past them while on the road today for work. I did not have a chance to photograph them as I was en route to a meeting and by the time it wrapped up night had fallen. However, I can post screen grabs shortly from Google Maps that may help confirm identification, which I will do shortly.I intend to go back later in the week to take some proper photos.Daniel PS note: title and OP information edited to reflect correct ID as American guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 18 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 18 November , 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 18 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 18 November , 2015 What do folks think? German? American? Something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 18 November , 2015 Share Posted 18 November , 2015 Helo Daniel! To me it´s an american 3" M/02 http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/3-inch_M1902_field_gun_at_the_1st_Division_Museum_tank_park.JPG&imgrefurl=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-inch_M1902_field_gun&h=3000&w=4000&tbnid=6HhdNjOE5AVjzM:&docid=PGx_9_ZOqWAdtM&ei=2ulLVs_ALYeuU6CzqJgL&tbm=isch&iact=rc&uact=3&page=1&start=0&ved=0CCEQrQMwAWoVChMIz5XYyP2YyQIVB9cUCh2gGQqz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 18 November , 2015 Share Posted 18 November , 2015 Agree they are the US 3inch guns. Some of the key identifiers are the two ammunition tubes under each shield seat, brake shoes on the front of the shield side and the shape of the recuperator box under the barrel Cheers RT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 18 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 18 November , 2015 Hi all, Thanks for sharing your observations and expertise! I rechecked the Passion Compassion site and these guns are not listed, so after I take new photos I will be reaching out to the site admin to let them know. The PC database of surviving American artillery: http://www.passioncompassion1418.com/english_plateforme.html I will, of course, post photos of the pieces here for folks to enjoy as well. -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 18 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 18 November , 2015 All, I went back and took a bunch of photos which I will upload this evening. Both are confirmed American 3" guns. One is a model 1905 (marked as such), but the other only has 'US' visible on the breech, so maybe it is a 1902? The pics will probably help clarify this. Both cannons were apparently restored in 1989 (according to a nearby plaque) but the intervening 26 years have been very hard on these two guns. You will see what I mean when I post the pics later. Very sad to see them rotting away. -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 18 November , 2015 Share Posted 18 November , 2015 Sobering to hear 1989 described as '26 years ago', Dan, but good that you've 'rediscovered' these two guns, and hopefully bringing them to attention again will help to secure their future. They do bear a fair resemblance to German 7.7cm field guns and it would be interesting to know their origin/inspiration and who the US Army envisaged using them against when they were designed in the early years of the 20th century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 18 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 18 November , 2015 Sobering to hear 1989 described as '26 years ago', Dan, but good that you've 'rediscovered' these two guns, and hopefully bringing them to attention again will help to secure their future. They do bear a fair resemblance to German 7.7cm field guns and it would be interesting to know their origin/inspiration and who the US Army envisaged using them against when they were designed in the early years of the 20th century. Tell me about it! Given they are relatively local I will start with an inqury with the VFW branch that is 'hosting' these to see what they can tell me. Maybe there is a restoration plan underway, like there was on the German gun I posted about a while back...who knows? So, the two guns...first, the one of the left of the central memorial statue (which is dedicated to the Civil War, so I will not post about it here): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 18 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 18 November , 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 18 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 18 November , 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 18 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 18 November , 2015 Now, the 'right' gun: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 18 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 18 November , 2015 Some of the age-related damage: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 18 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 18 November , 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 19 November , 2015 Share Posted 19 November , 2015 Great photos, Daniel!!! Thanx for showing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunmore1774 Posted 19 November , 2015 Share Posted 19 November , 2015 Very nice images, hopefully they can be preserved. This is the first I have heard of the Passion and Compassion website, and I was sorry to see my area (Western Pennsylvania completely blank. I have my work cut out for me! What a great idea for a website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieBris Posted 23 November , 2015 Share Posted 23 November , 2015 There was a comment that the 3inch M1902 field guns had a passing resemblance to the German Krupp 7.7cm FK 96 n.A. It's a case of right country, different manufacturer. The US 3inch field gun was based on the 76.2mm (3inch) Ehrhardt M1900 field gun - about 60 of these were sourced from Ehrhardt (later Rheinmetall). I can think of only one surviving Ehrhardt gun in the US - at the Marine Recruitment Centre in San Diego. The tubes under the axle tree seats were for ready use rounds - an idea that didn't survive beyond this model. Regards, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new3.2 Posted 24 November , 2015 Share Posted 24 November , 2015 There is another Rheinmetal ( it is marked Rheinmetal not Ehrhart) M/1902-05 at an American Legion Post in Greenville, SC. Are you folks familiar with the list of US cannon that has been around for a good while? It lists many more guns than that British list has for the US (but Civil War cannons are on another list). several friends own about 5 M/1902/5 guns here in Michigan. new3.2 Ken (The M/1902 replaced the US 3.2" gun) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new3.2 Posted 24 November , 2015 Share Posted 24 November , 2015 Another thought- If you find out about who is going to restore these guns- they must buy reproduction marine aluminum wheels if these guns are to remain outside. Otherwise they can assume that the wheels will need replacing about every 25 years. new3.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 24 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2015 There is another Rheinmetal ( it is marked Rheinmetal not Ehrhart) M/1902-05 at an American Legion Post in Greenville, SC. Are you folks familiar with the list of US cannon that has been around for a good while? It lists many more guns than that British list has for the US (but Civil War cannons are on another list). several friends own about 5 M/1902/5 guns here in Michigan. new3.2 Ken (The M/1902 replaced the US 3.2" gun) Hi Ken, Can we get a link to that list, please? I would be very interested in seeing it. I wonder how many Great War artillery pieces are in private hands? -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new3.2 Posted 25 November , 2015 Share Posted 25 November , 2015 Daniel- I am not aware that list is on line but my computer skills and its use are kind of in the dark ages. I will check with one of the compliers and forward a hard copy to you. There are many GW mortars & cannon in private hands. None of my cannons are GW, but I own three mortars, all are live but never have been shot. All my post 1898 guns are registered with ATF on my C&W license. The mortars are a German Granatenwerfer spigot type, German 7.6cm light minenwerfer with the late-war anti-tank addition, and a British pattern, American manufactured 6" Newton/Stokes mortar. The US had 49 of them in France by Nov. 1918. There use was to destroy barbed-wire. I have recently documented use of a US 3.2" being used for war service, but only in a casemate of a fort protecting Mobile Bay. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new3.2 Posted 26 November , 2015 Share Posted 26 November , 2015 Daniel- Good and bad news on the list. I found mine and tried to contact my friend who is/was involved with the project. His health is such that he can no longer be reached. My copy is dated March 2000, and the title is: The Ordnance Index To World War I Material. I googled the title and came up with: www.idsa.com/pages/books/11133/richard-c-pope/the-index-to. When it opened, it stated that the index is no longer available, and the seller IDSA Arms Books. Richard C. Pope is the original creator of the list and has a 1999 copywrite, so it must be out of print. I could Xerox a copy of my index if you were interested. There are 5 M/1905 guns listed for Cornwall, NY. I counted 20 M/1902/05 guns in NY. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 26 November , 2015 Share Posted 26 November , 2015 Ken... Is this the same type as the ILNG museum has? I'll give you a call! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new3.2 Posted 26 November , 2015 Share Posted 26 November , 2015 Yes, unless they have changed the paint shade the olive green is a little "wild". Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 9 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 9 December , 2015 Daniel- Good and bad news on the list. I found mine and tried to contact my friend who is/was involved with the project. His health is such that he can no longer be reached. My copy is dated March 2000, and the title is: The Ordnance Index To World War I Material. I googled the title and came up with: www.idsa.com/pages/books/11133/richard-c-pope/the-index-to. When it opened, it stated that the index is no longer available, and the seller IDSA Arms Books. Richard C. Pope is the original creator of the list and has a 1999 copywrite, so it must be out of print. I could Xerox a copy of my index if you were interested. There are 5 M/1905 guns listed for Cornwall, NY. I counted 20 M/1902/05 guns in NY. Ken Hi Ken, Just catching up on this thread...the list would be most welcome. Please see my reply to your PM. Thanks, Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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