motojosh Posted 16 November , 2015 Share Posted 16 November , 2015 Found this at the last militaria show. I've seen this type identified as a model 1864, but oddly the date on this one is 1842. There's a couple others I've found with pre 1864 dates as well, perhaps some earlier model type blades were rehilted? Quite a long service life I'd say 1842-1918! Unit marking on the cross guard to the 17th Reserve-Proviantkolonne (Reserve Supply Column) Battle map: http://www.veterans.gc.ca/images/feature/hundreddays/maps/map-01_e.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 16 November , 2015 Share Posted 16 November , 2015 ... There's a couple others I've found with pre 1864 dates as well, perhaps some earlier model type blades were rehilted? ... Nice looking piece. The Prussians certainly went in for re-hilting, and I'll see what I can find on this model when back home. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 16 November , 2015 Share Posted 16 November , 2015 Not found out anything more about that Seitengewehr itself, but the markings look to be according to the 1877 regulations for Prussia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman Posted 16 November , 2015 Share Posted 16 November , 2015 FaschinenMesser translates as Fascine cutter or knife Fascines were bundles of brush wood bound together to throw into a ditch or trench More of an pioneer tool than a weapon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 16 November , 2015 Share Posted 16 November , 2015 The suspected date of 1842 matches to that FW cypher, which belongs to Kaiser Friedrich Wilhelm IV (Hohenzollern of Prussia) who reigned between 1840 and 1861 Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 17 November , 2015 Share Posted 17 November , 2015 Well, hardly a 'suspected' date of '1842' SS when it is nice and clear!!! Time for the second cup of coffee!!! The Faschinenmesser is in all honesty outside my comfort zone when it comes to Blankwaffen... But I do have some bits and pieces of information that will help get to grips with this unusual find and establish something about its history before it was 'liberated' in 1918... According to Faschinenmesser: Preußen, Sachsen, Bayern, Württemberg by Peter-Michel Wolfgang (p.66), the Prussians captured loads of the French infantry sabre briquet during the 1813 Befreiungskrieg. Some of these were re-issued as they were to Prussian troops, others were shortened and given new grips to become the Faschinenmesser M.1839. The Preußische FaschinenMesser Modell 1864 was a development from this M.1839, but using the grip from the Füsilier-Seitengewehr M 1860 and (at first) again the shortened blades of captured French sabre briquet but then purpose-made blades. So, that's the origin / idea behind the curved blade and handle on that Amiens piece, but what I haven't yet worked out is whether these blades were ever purpose-made for the original M.1839 or if they were re-stamped after inspection so giving the 'FW / 42' on yours. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 17 November , 2015 Share Posted 17 November , 2015 Very nice piece with that inscription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 17 November , 2015 Share Posted 17 November , 2015 Actually, worth bearing in mind that the Faschinenmesser is ancestral to the S.98/05, which was originally conceived as a 'machette' type bayonet-cum-tool (with sawback) for the Pioniere- and Eisenbahntruppen only, and (without sawback) the Fussartillerie- and Telegraphentruppen. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motojosh Posted 19 November , 2015 Author Share Posted 19 November , 2015 Thanks for the comments! According to Faschinenmesser: Preußen, Sachsen, Bayern, Württemberg by Peter-Michel Wolfgang (p.66), the Prussians captured loads of the French infantry sabre briquet during the 1813 Befreiungskrieg. Some of these were re-issued as they were to Prussian troops, others were shortened and given new grips to become the Faschinenmesser M.1839. The Preußische FaschinenMesser Modell 1864 was a development from this M.1839, but using the grip from the Füsilier-Seitengewehr M 1860 and (at first) again the shortened blades of captured French sabre briquet but then purpose-made blades. So, that's the origin / idea behind the curved blade and handle on that Amiens piece, but what I haven't yet worked out is whether these blades were ever purpose-made for the original M.1839 or if they were re-stamped after inspection so giving the 'FW / 42' on yours. Trajan Excellent info there. Putting it next to a French Briquet the profile of the original blade can clearly be seen. Here's another early dated one which predates even the M.1839: http://www.stewartsmilitaryantiques.com/german-pattern-1864-faschinenmesser-1837-dated-blade.22826.archive.htm All three examples that I've found with pre 1864 dates have the S&K mark of Schnitzler & Kirschbaum on the ricasso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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