Moore Street - Europe's best preserved modern battlefield

[Sinabhfuil]

The battlefield at Moore Street in Dublin is unusual in that it is - though hugely endangered by development - regarded as the most intact modern European city battlefield.

At the end of the Easter Rising in April 1916, the GPO garrison split, The O'Rahilly leading a charge down Henry Street and along Moore Street; the men who charged faced machine gun and sniper fire from Amiens Street and Capel Street at either end of Henry Street, and then from the Parnell Street end of Moore Street. The O'Rahilly lay dying for a day or more in the part of Moore Lane that is now called O'Rahilly Parade. (There's a plaque, but it's actually on the opposite side of the street from where O'Rahilly, a wealthy Gaelic scholar who'd parked his De Dion Bouton into a barricade a few days earlier, lay dying.)

The other part of the garrison crossed Henry Street in threes, with PH Pearse at the (now gone) Henry Street door of the GPO on one side and Joseph Plunkett on the other in Henry Place (another of the several ends of Moore Lane) signalling them to cross.

They were crossing from the inferno of the GPO and O'Connell Street into a lane that was hopping with ricochets; they thought the fire was coming from a mineral factory in a whitewashed building known as the White House, so they broke in there, leaving the wounded and gangrenous James Connolly on his stretcher in the lane, then dashed out and got him, and all piled in.

They had come under the leadership of Sean McLoughlin, a Fianna messenger who was returning from a foray and who knew the area; he led them to a corner house in Moore Street. They broke in here, and broke through the walls of houses all along the terrace, and occupied these houses and the outbuildings and gardens behind.

Their intention was to break through further and get to a factory off Parnell Street, Williams & Woods, but they were hopelessly surrounded by the strongest and most experienced army in the Europe of their time. The leaders were divided; PH Pearse eventually persuaded the others to surrender after they saw the British gunners at the end of Moore Street shoot down a family who had come out of their public house business and home on the other side of the street waving a sheet as a white flag. Pearse insisted that the bloodshed among Dubliners was too great.

A young nurse, Elizabeth O'Farrell, herself took a makeshift white flag, and walked out of No 18 Moore Street and up to the barricade, asking to be taken to General Lowe, who was headquartered in Thomas Clarke's shop nearby.

Four of these houses - 14, 15, 16, 17 - have been made into a National Monument and are under protected status. The other houses are to be knocked down to build a giant mall, probably the last thing central Dublin needs, in my opinion… No 18, from which Elizabeth O'Farrell exited to surrender, is to be the first knocked, to allow heavy machinery into the four National Monument houses to provide what sounds like a rather tacky 1916 Rising Experience museum.

[John_Hartley]

the strongest and most experienced army in the Europe of their time.

Wouldn't that have been the German one in early 1916?

[Sinabhfuil]

You think? But hadn't the British been running armies all over the world for generations, and they'd had the recent Boer War to sharpen up their skills?

[CROONAERT]

Wouldn't that have been the German one in early 1916?

Probably, yes.... with the French in a close-run second place.

Dave

[CROONAERT]

...hadn't the British been running armies all over the world for generations, and they'd had the recent Boer War to sharpen up their skills?

Yes....but so had the French (and, to a lesser extent, the Germans). OK, not the Boer War, but the French had been in almost constant combat in Algeria, Morocco, Indochine, etc (and China - alongside the Germans, Brits, Yanks, etc). The Germans and French , by 1914, also had the most recent experience of 'total' warfare on the European mainland utilising weaponry which would become the norm in WW1.

Dave

[Sinabhfuil]

Interesting. Who were the French and Germans killing in their total European wars?

[CROONAERT]

Each other!!!

(Then this was followed by a short spell of one lot of French killing another lot of French!)

[Sinabhfuil]

But all those English wars in eastern countries? Afghanistan, Iraq kinda places?

[archangel9]

Recently announced that the house to which James Connolly was carried is to be restored. But not in time for the Centenary celebrations. Pity. Is that 18?

[depaor01]

But all those English wars in eastern countries? Afghanistan, Iraq kinda places?

Iraq was unknown in 1916.

Dave

[Stoppage Drill]

But all those English wars in eastern countries? Afghanistan, Iraq kinda places?

Ah yes ! Won for us by Irish volunteers in the ranks.

Thank you very much. Couldn't have done it without you.

[CROONAERT]

But all those English wars in eastern countries? Afghanistan, Iraq kinda places?

...and all those French ones too? (following the conclusion of the Franco-German War in 1871, the French army were involved in many campaigns and wars such as The El Mokrani Uprisings, The Conquest of Tunisia, The Mandingo Wars (X3), the Madagascar Expeditions (X2), the Sino-French War, the Tonkin Campaign, the Franco-Dahomean Wars (X2), the Franco-Siamese War, the Waiddi War, the Conquest of Morocco, the Zayan War, the Volta-Bani War, The Kaocen Revolt, etc ...etc ...etc....)

I think you'll find that most countries that governed empires/colonies at the time were involved in military actions for much of the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th Centuries...not just the British. The French, in particular, saw action somewhere in the world practically every year from 1853 through to 1914 (and beyond).

Dave

[depaor01]

Good point Martin.

This place is surely worthy of the claim:

http://www.oradour.info/

and poignant for obvious reasons.

Dave

[Sinabhfuil]

No, the White House is due for demolition, as far as I know.

The lanes are due to become plastic walkways in a plastic mall.

The four houses that it was rather randomly decided were worthy of 'national monument' status will become a kind of video diary experience with purple light.

[Guest]

S

No, the White House is due for demolition, as far as I know.

The lanes are due to become plastic walkways in a plastic mall.

The four houses that it was rather randomly decided were worthy of 'national monument' status will become a kind of video diary experience with purple light.

Can you tell us who thinks these are part of the the 'best preserved battlefield' ? ... And what is the benchmark? MG

[Sinabhfuil]

I can't, offhand - someone from the British Museum maybe? Most intact *urban* battlefield, I think it was. Anyway, it won't be once the mall is built.

[Ogilwy]

There does not seem to be a date range on this, 'most intact modern European city battlefield ' or even 'Urban Battlefield'. If that is the case then Spain has some excellent locations from the Civil war. Having worked with the Basques I think they would wish to be considered for this title.

[Guest]

It seems to be one of those broad sweeping claims that the author hadn't really thought about. I suspect it is someone trying to ascribe a level of importance to this site by making exaggerated claims in order to raise awareness. I imagine there are dozens of better preserved urban battlefields across Europe. Unless the author can provide some kind of framework and reference points it will remain a rather hollow claim.

Surely the significance of the site in Ireland's history is enough? It seems an odd an unnecessary claim.

MG

[depaor01]

Agreed Martin. Other arguably more important sites in Dublin have been demolished over the years. Jacob's biscuit factory, Boland's mills, Marrowbone Lane distillery, the Mendicity Institute and most of what is now James's Hospital. The Moore Street hullabaloo is too little too late for what I think is a last gasp attempt to rescue a 1916 Rising site in time for the 2016 commemoration.

Dave

[Sinabhfuil]

Jacob's wasn't demolished, surely; it was refurbished and became the College of Communications?

Deciding, anyway, that "Other places have been demolished, and they were really more important than this place people are now trying to save" is an old tactic. It was used in the case of Kilmainham Gaol, saved by volunteers after years of the government trying to get rid of it and them, and is now one of the country's most visited - and most moving - tourist destinations. Go and have a look if you're in Dublin.

[KevinBattle]

No, thanks. Surely as a reminder that all those Irish "patriots" were simply being used as dummies by Germany would be a reason to eradicate all reminders of the shame of biting the hand that fed them. As someone of Irish descent, it seems that we can nurse one small slight for centuries, disregarding that in the process we cause those same slights to others for them to nurture too.

sin a bhfuil go léir agus go n-eirí an t-adh leat

May all your "Troubles" be little ones!

Edited 24 November , 2015 by Keith Roberts

[depaor01]

Jacob's wasn't demolished, surely; it was refurbished and became the College of Communications?

Deciding, anyway, that "Other places have been demolished, and they were really more important than this place people are now trying to save" is an old tactic. It was used in the case of Kilmainham Gaol, saved by volunteers after years of the government trying to get rid of it and them, and is now one of the country's most visited - and most moving - tourist destinations. Go and have a look if you're in Dublin.

Jacob's factory was gutted and demolished save for some façade that was retained. Only a small number of pieces of the original façade remain. I remember the intact original factory.

Regarding your second point, I live in Dublin and have visited Kilmainham Gaol on many occasions. I have no "tactic" beyond making the point that the State over the years have failed to protect more important structures, and the Moore Street houses preservation is too little too late.

Dave

[Guest]

Irish history is a new area of interest for me. I recently read a number of books on Ireland's history in order to try and gain a better understanding the legacy of some Irish attitudes during the Great War. The two that had the greatest impact were;

The Great Hunger by Cecil Woodham-Smith

Irish Migration in Britain 1915-1914 by Roger Smith (Ed).

Both were really quite eye-opening. As someone with not an atom of Irish blood I finished these books with a rather greater sympathy towards the southern Irish. The inequalities that pervaded in Ireland in the 70 years prior to the great war were quite alarming and understandably would have motivated some nationalists' deep hatred of the British Government. My interest was in the driving force behind migration and the extent to which Irish communities were represented in parts of England, Scotland and Wales. It is difficult to understand this without the context of the sectarian legislation in Ireland in the prior decades, specifically land ownership and Catholicism.

I understand why fragments of the Easter Rising might still be important to some but when does one stop embalming the past?. In extremis could argue every street in Dublin was once walked upon by Nationalists and therefore it should all be preserved. It will be interesting to see how the 100th Anniversary is remembered. MG

[Murrough]

I don't know much about the Moore street site but if it is deemed to be important enough to be preserved, then so be it.It is part of our history no matter how unpalatable the events were to those at the time and even to some today.

We have come along way in Ireland, we are remembering our WW1 dead albeit belatedly but we cannot go down the same road of airbrushing one group from history because it is not to our political or historical liking.

[Murrough]

No, thanks. Surely as a reminder that all those Irish "patriots" were simply being used as dummies by Germany would be a reason to eradicate all reminders of the shame of biting the hand that fed them. As someone of Irish descent, it seems that we can nurse one small slight for centuries, disregarding that in the process we cause those same slights to others for them to nurture too.

sin a bhfuil go léir agus go n-eirí an t-adh leat

May all your "Troubles" be little ones!

Well then you are missing a great example of a Georgian Gaol, that has historical significance besides the Easter leaders,but I can understand your reluctance to make a visit, I would baulk at the prospect of visiting anything to do with disagreeable figures(in my eyes) from the past.

We tried to build an integrated future under Home Rule many times in the past but that unfortunately did not work out and all sides share the blame for that.You tell us to look forward for once, and that is exactly what we did in by gaining our independence, we have evolved as a country and not all of us are prisoners of the past. We now strive to be inclusive of all in our historical narrative and commemorations.

Edited 24 November , 2015 by murrough