Khaki Posted 16 October , 2015 Share Posted 16 October , 2015 Recently looking at another post on FM Haig statue and subsequent thoughts and questions, it occurred to me to ask why didn't GW General officers in the field (on horseback) carry marmeluke swords ? I reference FM Haig, mainly because I am used to seeing him and his escort in GW photographs and the equestrian statues of him show that he is carrying the 1912 officers pattern sword. Granted the marmeluke nowadays appears to be a ceremonial relic of the past but so are all swords. Does anyone know when they stopped being worn in the field by General officers? khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 16 October , 2015 Share Posted 16 October , 2015 Ah! marmeluke swords - you either love 'em or hate 'em..... As you're a US resident, you'll know that term from the US Marine Corps and 1st Lt O'Bannon on the shores of Tripoli.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 16 October , 2015 Share Posted 16 October , 2015 I still can't see how Haig's sword can be described as 1912 pattern since it has holes in the guard. The 1912 does not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 16 October , 2015 Author Share Posted 16 October , 2015 I still can't see how Haig's sword can be described as 1912 pattern since it has holes in the guard. The 1912 does not! That was discussed on another post, all I can think of, as I said in that post, was that maybe the holes were done by the sculptor to provide drainage in the upturned guard.? khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 16 October , 2015 Share Posted 16 October , 2015 According to Robson (Swords of the British Army), "throughout the 19th century, general officers tended to carry the sword of their original corps while on active service and this was regularised in the Dress Regulations of 1900". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 16 October , 2015 Author Share Posted 16 October , 2015 I presume that means if you were Rifle Brigade, Cavalry etc that's what you carried, ok., but that leaves a gap to where a marmeluke comes in? Many years ago I saw a man being Knighted by a Brigadier General (Governor General) in the uniform of one of the Guards regiments, he used a marmeluke. thanks khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 16 October , 2015 Share Posted 16 October , 2015 Presumably the Mameluke was to be worn when not on active service? Perhaps we should look for photos of Haig post war? It might have been, in practice, a case of personal preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 16 October , 2015 Author Share Posted 16 October , 2015 Could well be, I am sure the rank of FM allows for a wide latitude of preference. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 16 October , 2015 Author Share Posted 16 October , 2015 I still can't see how Haig's sword can be described as 1912 pattern since it has holes in the guard. The 1912 does not! It just occurred to me maybe FM Haig had his sword modified/personalised with a voided guard. Does his field sword still exist (hopefully) in a museum, maybe we could get a look at it if it does. any takers ? khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Henschke Posted 17 October , 2015 Share Posted 17 October , 2015 I believe the correct spelling is marmalade, so as not to conflate with mameluke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 17 October , 2015 Author Share Posted 17 October , 2015 I believe the correct spelling is marmalade, so as not to conflate with mameluke. you could be getting into a sticky area there Chris, khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 17 October , 2015 Share Posted 17 October , 2015 This photo shows Haig with the King of the Belgians and carrying what looks to me much like the statue sword. I assume it`s a 7th Hussars special! It`s definitely not a 1912 pattern. I`ve also seen photos of him as a FM carrying a 3 bar light cavalry sword. I`m sure I`ve also seen him with a mameluke while in full dress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 17 October , 2015 Author Share Posted 17 October , 2015 It certainly does appear like the 'statue' sword, any chance that you can zoom in on the hilt? ,there is a well known image of FM Haig seated in full dress, plumed hat etc and he is holding a marmeluke sword. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted 17 October , 2015 Share Posted 17 October , 2015 For the benefit of those of us who do not know, what is a marma..., whatever it should be, sword. Old Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 17 October , 2015 Author Share Posted 17 October , 2015 The marmeluke sword is a cross hilted saber derived from a style of swords worn by Mamluk warriors of Egypt, it appears to have something in common with the early scimitar types. The marmeluke has no hand guard and the grips are slab ivory/bone, a beautifully made sword normally carried by General officers and also used by the United States Marine Corps. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 17 October , 2015 Share Posted 17 October , 2015 This is a 19th century 7th Hussars sword which I suspect may be the type carried by Haig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 17 October , 2015 Share Posted 17 October , 2015 I trust Khaki won`t mind me mentioning that the English spelling is mameluke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 17 October , 2015 Author Share Posted 17 October , 2015 I certainly don't mind, in fact I will go one step further and add that it is not only the English spelling, but it is the correct spelling, I was wrong, sorry! (marmajam) khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 17 October , 2015 Author Share Posted 17 October , 2015 That is a very handsome sword Phil, is that a name engraved between the lower scroll work? and does the grip match the one on the statue of Haig in the post, Haig's Missing Sword? khaki (Marmaduke) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 17 October , 2015 Share Posted 17 October , 2015 I don't know anything more about the sword. It appears to have initials on the guard. I think it may be early 19thC and it could possibly be a king's crown. Haig's sword may have been a later 19th C version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 17 October , 2015 Author Share Posted 17 October , 2015 Looks to me (obvious to everyone else) as a QV crown with scrolled Q O, Queens Own, VII Hussars, I am sure you are right about late 19th century. very nice piece to have. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now