Jutland Centenary 2016

[MikB]

The key statistic from Jutland was that the day after the battle, the British had 23 Dreadnoughts ready to fight (if required) whilst the Germans only had 10 Dreadnoughts capable of doing so.

Both Beatty and Jellicoe made much of the weaker armour protection fitted to RN warships, however, although three British battlecruisers were sunk, none of them were destroyed by shells penetrating the belt armour and detonating the magazines; instead, each was penetrated through a turret roof and had their magazines ignited by flash fires accessing open shell-handling rooms. If safer ammunition handling practices had been adopted, then British losses would have been considerably lighter.

And furthermore, if British shells had been better fit for purpose, there would have been a good half-dozen more German ships sunk that day (instead of the Lyddite explosive denonating prematurely before actually penetrating German armour).

Other weaknesses exposed by Jutland include, poor disemination of intelligence, weak communication practices, questionable handling of the Battlecruisers, the disadvantages of Bracket firing v. Ladder firing, and inability of the British Fleet to conduct effective night actions.

Michael

That's a valid analysis - but even allowing for all that, there was a dismal lack of initiative during the night actions. IIRC the heavily-damaged Seydlitz stumbled past Grand Fleet ships and was recognised at point-blank range three or four times, but no captain would sanction opening fire without orders from above. As one of the officers commented, the better action would've been to fire and then say 'Sorry'. At least 2 more German capital ships would probably have gone down had they done so.

Regards,

MikB

[Medaler]

At the end of the day, the RN made their point sufficiently at Jutland. If the losses incurred in another more decisive engagement had been on the same proportions, the Germans would have ended up with a surface fleet composed entirely of lifeboats long before we would.

[henryww1]

The war was not lost at Jutland by the British, although it could not statistically said to have been won by any other measure. The status between the navy`s and the blockade of Germany was maintained.

Errors some time define the day, but on this occasion they did not change the course of the battles outcome nor the war.

[MichaelBully]

Have been sent an E mail with regard to descendants of those who fought wanting to apply for tickets to the official Jutland centenary commemoration. Personally I don't mix family history and my interest in the Great War so assume that I don't have any relatives who fought on either side. But hope all GWF pals who wish to attend are successful :

Regards

" Descendants of those who served at sea in the First World War are invited to take part in commemoration events marking the 100th anniversary of the Battle of Jutland, Culture Secretary John Whittingdale announced today.

The Orkney Islands commemorative events will include a morning service on 31 May 2016 at St Magnus Cathedral, Kirkwall, followed by a ceremony at the Lyness Royal Naval Cemetery at Hoy, where over 400 Commonwealth servicemen and German sailors from the First World War are buried - some as young as 16.

The Battle of Jutland was the most significant naval engagement of the First World War with over 100,000 sailors involved on 250 ships. More than 6,000 Royal Navy and 2,500 German sailors lost their lives........."

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/descendants-invited-to-jutland-centenary-commemorations

[Andy F]

I had a Great Uncle Killed on HMS Defence, sometimes I think that the loss of Arbuthnots 1st Cruiser squadron is one of the overlooked aspects of the battle, which tends to concentrate on the loss of the Battle Cruisers. Of the Armoured Cruisers Defence, Black Prince, Warrrior , and Duke of Edinburgh, only the Edinburgh survived..

It could be argued that these obsolescent Armoured Cruisers were used for duties for which they were totally unfit.

[MichaelBully]

Happy New Year to everyone here on GWF,

I am trying to compile a list of famous Jutland veterans and not doing very well !

So far I have

King George VI ( HMS Collingwood)

Patrick M S Blackett- the physicist and Nobel Prize winner, but I can't find out on which ship he served.

and that's about it.

Any other names ?

Many thanks

Michael Bully

[seaJane]

Hi Michael

Did Blackett serve as an officer?

sJ

[MichaelBully]

Hi SJ ! Happy new year !

From doing web-searches seems that Blackett was a lieutenant by end of the Great War .

His Wiki entry states that he was serving on 'HMS Barham' at Jutland, but can't work out his progress through the ranks at this stage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Blackett

The 'Early Years' section cites

His Royal Society biographical entry from 1975, but only the content page is available on line !

http://rsbm.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/roybiogmem/21/1

I only heard of him from reading via a passing entry in a book titled 'The Red and the Blue , Intelligence, Treason and the Universities' by Andrew Sinclair.

Must stress immediately that there is NO evidence of any wrongdoing on his part. Blackett his mentioned purely as a Socialist and renowned physicist studying at Cambridge University after resigning from the Royal Navy .

Regards

Hi Michael

Did Blackett serve as an officer?

sJ

[seaJane]

Navy List is available and searchable via archive.org - April and July 1916 both have Blackett as a middy (midshipman) seniority August 1914.

Blackett also has an entry in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (accessible via your public library or your membership card for it) which states: "Blackett received his early education at a preparatory school in High Street, Guildford, from 1907 and entered Royal Naval College at Osborne in 1910, moving on to Royal Naval College at Dartmouth in 1912, as was customary for naval cadets. When war broke out in August 1914 he and other cadets were immediately sent into action, and he participated in the battle of the Falkland Islands in 1914 and the battle of Jutland in 1916. Promoted to lieutenant in May 1918, he resigned from the navy shortly after January 1919 when the Admiralty sent him to Cambridge along with other officers whose study had been interrupted in 1914."

It's possible to search the Oxford DNB full-text for Jutland although you will also pick up a few people who came from Denmark ...

sJ

[seaJane]

Service record at Discovery here: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7619318

[MichaelBully]

That's great SJ ! Many thanks indeed for all your help in the last 2 posts. Regards

Service record at Discovery here: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7619318

[MichaelBully]

Warning duplicate post on 2 other related Forums but think worth adding to this thread !

Jutland commemoration -memorial park in Denmark opening on 1st June 2016.

There will be a 26 granite monuments 3.5 metres for each of the ships that were lost and also

" There will be a total of 8,645 figures; individually intended as a memorial to each of the victims, and collectively, as a moving visualisation of the huge loss of human life incurred in the battle.

The figures will be of such a height that visitors to the Memorial Park can view them slightly from above, allowing them to survey the sea of sculptures with the shape and character of the landscape as a backdrop.

The Memorial Park will not distinguish between British and German seamen in its design. The idea of the project is to erect a memorial to the fallen seamen on neutral ground; one sculpture for each person who died in the Battle of Jutland. "

http://www.jutlandbattlememorial.com/english.html

worth scrolling down to the post titled

PROFOUND RESPECT FOR THE 8,647 KILLED

Have to admit to being impressed. Has really got me thinking about how the Great War impacted on Denmark as a neutral country in relation to the threat from mines, submarine activity, naval blockades etc.

[trajan]

This seems perhaps the best place to note this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3460356/New-interactive-map-recalls-thousands-lost-Battle-Jutland-100-years-on.html

Trajan

[Ghazala]

Thanks. Interesting

[Howard]

Nice undated map here, "Prepared by the Operations Division of the Naval Staff under the Superintendence of Captain JET Harper MVO, RN and produced by the Hydrographic Department, Admiralty"

It is a large file. Right click and choose "save as" etc.

Howard

[MichaelBully]

Looks like that there will be an event in Southsea to mark the commemoration of the Jutland centenary. 31st May 2016 will be a Thursday. If other GWF pals would like to meet up and go as a group, perhaps we could organise something?

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and...nd-at-southsea

"Royal Navy to mark Jutland anniversary with parade and ceremony at Southsea
17/03/2016
The Royal Navy will be marking the 100th anniversary of The Battle of Jutland with a parade and ceremony at Southsea.

More than 100 sailors will march through the town – led by the Royal Marines Band Collingwood – to Southsea Common war memorial where a 45-minute ceremony and service will take place on May 31.

About 50 veterans from the Royal British Legion and Royal Naval Association will also join the parade.

Members of the public are being encouraged to line the route from Palmerston Road, along Avenue De Caen and the Esplanade. "

[mandy hall]

Hi Michael

The 31st May is a Tuesday, so at the moment don't know what will be going on at work. If it had been a Thursday, I could almost guarantee I would be able to come as this is usually my day off.

Will let you know nearer the time.

Mandy

[keithmroberts]

I plan to be somewhere around. My current project involves among other thing researching a number of men who served at Jutland, and some of the team will surely be presnt. Maybe we could think of meeting for a brew or a beer after the main event

Keith

[MichaelBully]

Hello Mandy and Keith. Yes would be great to meet up at the event or afterwards if you're available. Once times have been finalised perhaps we can work out a place that GWF pals can meet up before and also somewhere to gather afterwards.

I don't know the area so need to local input.

With best wishes

[trajan]

"Grave of the 'boy hero' of Battle of Jutland given new protected status to mark centenary" plus other relevant memorials. See: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/26/grave-of-the-boy-hero-of-battle-of-jutland-given-new-protected-status-to-mark-centenary

Trajan

[MichaelBully]

Thanks for posting ! Good news. Especially considering that Jack Cornwell was originally buried in a common grave.

"Grave of the 'boy hero' of Battle of Jutland given new protected status to mark centenary" plus other relevant memorials. See: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/26/grave-of-the-boy-hero-of-battle-of-jutland-given-new-protected-status-to-mark-centenary

Trajan

[trajan]

Happy to share - and here is another nice piece with an illustration I do remember from my childhood: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-36386665 I must have seen it reproduced somewhere, obviously!