JMB1943 Posted 9 September , 2015 Share Posted 9 September , 2015 I recently came across this P.'07 Wilkinson, dated 7 '17 and re-stamped '25. Had not previously seen any bayo. marked to the Royal Marines (assumption), so could not resist. Presumably, Royal Marine Troop Anti-Aircraft 1 Heavy Battery Can I assume that the pommel was marked in '25, rather than '17, or are no assumptions safe ? Any thoughts as to where such a unit would be posted ? Maybe attached to a Royal Garrison Artillery battery ? Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 9 September , 2015 Share Posted 9 September , 2015 I recently came across this P.'07 Wilkinson, dated 7 '17 and re-stamped '25. JMB, Your Pommel's top regimental mark is the seldom seen R. MTA. A. for the Royal Malta Artillery and below that 1 H BTY for No.1 Heavy Battery, with 101 being the bayonet's serial number. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 9 September , 2015 Share Posted 9 September , 2015 Nice find, congrats khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 9 September , 2015 Share Posted 9 September , 2015 JMB, Here is a link to some excellent information on the Royal Malta Artillery, including the No.1 Heavy Battery. http://maltaramc.com/regmltgar/rymaltartillery.html Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 9 September , 2015 Share Posted 9 September , 2015 Can I assume that the pommel was marked in '25, rather than '17, or are no assumptions safe ? Looks like that unit marking ties in very nicely with the '25 reissue and/or inspection date, with the first establishment of the No.1 Heavy Battery in 1924. So some interesting evidence which adds further support to those who would argue in favour of the "reissue" markings - in this case it would appear so.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 9 September , 2015 Share Posted 9 September , 2015 JMB, Reading the Royal Malta Artillery link, it appears that the Royal Malta Artillery was formed on the then British Island of Malta, on 23rd March, 1889. The No.1 Heavy Battery was formed on 1st May, 1924 and was based at Malta's Fort Rocco, so it may well have been that your bayonet's pommel was originally marked to the Royal Malta Artillery, and then subsequently following the forming of the No.1 Heavy Battery in 1924, the pommel was re-stamped with the addition of 1 H BTY, which would tie in with your bayonet's date stamps. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 10 September , 2015 Author Share Posted 10 September , 2015 Gentlemen, You are very good ! So, just to close the circle, has RM = Royal Marines ever been observed, for instance as RM Light Infantry ? Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 10 September , 2015 Share Posted 10 September , 2015 So, just to close the circle, has RM = Royal Marines ever been observed, for instance as RM Light Infantry ? JMB, Pleased to help, and personally, I have not seen a British Royal Marines or Royal Marines Light Infantry marked bayonet pommel, and the reference books show none listed. There are examples of British bayonet pommels marked R.N.B. for Royal Navy Brigade, or R.N. for Royal Navy, and I have seen RMLI on a sword blade. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 10 September , 2015 Share Posted 10 September , 2015 A very nice find and a fascinating marking there! I wouldn't dare comment on the chronology of the markings, except to note that up to the GW period, the standard abbreviation for Malta on weapons was 'MTA', so in this case, an example of a post GW unit-marked bayonet. Yes, I know, many think that unit-marking went out with the GW, but I don't have access to any Armourer's Regulations for the post-GW period so cannot comment on that - except to note that the evidence is for all RAF marked P.1907 bayonets being so-marked after the creation of the RAF Regiment, in WW2... Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 10 September , 2015 Share Posted 10 September , 2015 I wouldn't dare comment on the chronology of the markings, except to note that up to the GW period, the standard abbreviation for Malta on weapons was 'MTA', so in this case, an example of a post GW unit-marked bayonet. Trajan, With the Royal Malta Artillery having been formed in 1889, the R. MTA. A. marking could date from the bayonet's earlier 1917 date mark. However, as the No.1 Heavy Battery was not formed util May 1924, we know for sure that the 1 H BTY mark is dated mid-1924 or later. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 10 September , 2015 Share Posted 10 September , 2015 Trajan, With the Royal Malta Artillery having been formed in 1889, the R. MTA. A. marking could date from the bayonet's earlier 1917 date mark. However, as the No.1 Heavy Battery was not formed util May 1924, we know for sure that the 1 H BTY mark is dated mid-1924 or later. Regards, LF Point taken - my fault for not looking at the 'List 1' sections of the various Instructions to Armourers I had, 'R.MTA.A' being there in the 1897, 1904, and 1912/16 editions... Still a matter of interest, though, that some units at least were marking bayonets after the GW. Do you have any idea when the practice was resurrected and for how long? The RAF-marked ones are pretty certainly WW2 by my reckoning, as the serial numbers run into thousands and so are best explained as having been issued to the RAF Regiment. BTW, some at least of these RAF ones with original GW dates do not have 're-issue' markings. Best, Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdt Posted 10 September , 2015 Share Posted 10 September , 2015 Hi, I haven't seen any 1907's marked to the Royal Marines but I have seen an Arisaka marked RM 69. This would have been one of the 150,000 or so bought by the British Government in late 1914 /1915. Apparently the Navy had to exchange their SMLE's for Arisakas when they were bought. Re post WW1 unit markings, I think these are quite common on 1907 bayonets. I suspect many are from the 1930's. The regiment abbreviations are different, though I've never seen a list. N.STF becomes N.STAF for example, I have an example of the latter. Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now