German Machine Gunner Insignia

[Guest redrum]

Did German machine gunners really paint the gun logo onto the side of their helmets?

I have heard conflicting stories that they did/didnt for various reasons.

[Ralph J. Whitehead]

I have never come across any photos or descriptions that support this, I doubt any of them ever did during the war. Only the Marksmen units wore any particular insignia, the normal MG companies did not.

Ralph

[Guest redrum]

There is a photo of a helmet clearly showing a painted machine gun logo on the side of a M16 helmet in Baers book of German helmets. But Some folk believe this is a "fantasy badge". I have a helmet in my collection similary badged but have had doubts over its authenticity.

[Robert Dunlop]

I think it highly unlikely. A picture of the MG Marksman badge has been posted before on this forum. Gunners would rip it off if capture was imminent. They were (rightly) fearful that capture would mean instant death if they were identified by the badge. So painting a badge on the helmet would make no sense.

Robert

[Guest shenkursk]

It could have happened... anything is possible and it is always dangerous to say "never" about something from so long ago.

Having said that, I have never seen a period photo showing this, and I have handled a fair number of them.

I have never seen an original helmet with this insignia painted... but I have seen quite a few fakes passed along by dealers with lumps of coal where their souls are supposed to be!

Good reference books are like good collections - they almost always inadvertently contain a couple of bad items.

If I should ever run across a period photo, I'll be sure to post it.

Jeff

[Guest Chip Minx]

redrum,

I cast my vote with the doubters. There is plenty of period photographic evidence of the sleeve patch being worn, but not so much as one picture of a helmet with this inisignia has turned up. I would think this would be a postwar paint job, perhaps by a veteran or more likely, it's a complete fantasy.

I am also not so sure about the truth of the myth that the machine gun sharpshooter's insignia was always tossed aside at the first hint of eminent capture. Did the Germans automatically shoot any Tommy with the Machine Gun Corp insignia? I think not.

There have been numerous attempts to fool the German helmet collector with everything from fake Turkish visorless helmets to insignia for WWI navy troops. To my knowledge, the only two photo-verified helmet insignia from the period are the Prussian Guard Division shield and another shield worn by a group of artillerists from an Infanterie Geschutz battery. This latter insignia is chronicaled in a series of photos from the Imperial War Museum, which show a helmeted group of soldiers manhandling a gun. One photo of this series has been used in many books.

Chip

[Robert Dunlop]

I too would doubt that the MG sharpshooters badge was 'always' ripped off. But there is no doubt that certain types of soldier could come in for 'different' treatment, including summary dispatch. I have seen references to German machine gunners being killed once their position was stormed, even though (or especially because) they put their hands up to surrender at the very last minute. And there are veiled references to this happening in other accounts. I would not discard this story as myth.

Robert

[Guest Chip Minx]

Robert,

I agree with you in that machine gunners would probably rate highly on the "no mercy" list, but my reference was to the "myth" that the MGSSA insignia was always discarded (with the key word being "always"). I was just saying that I could not imagine that this would always be the case, even though when it is normally discussed this is the prevalent notion.

Regards,

Chip