oldport Posted 6 September , 2015 Share Posted 6 September , 2015 Newbie trying to acquire knowledge of as many facts as possible to be gleaned from this (and a couple of other) family photos showing great uncle, Peter Gruler (Freiburg), at far left standing over the "X", besides the obvious (yes, he was a german soldier On other side of this postcard there is german handwriting translating to something like "taken in France" (post card was not postal system cancelled) I believe I've correctly ID'd the rifles to be GEW 88's of some variation and his bayo an SG.71. Read someplace that "commission" rifles were used by reservists and these guys look a bit old to be on the "A team" IMHO A couple of other photos which appear to have been taken later have more data and I will post them if there is any interest Thanks very much for your help !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 6 September , 2015 Share Posted 6 September , 2015 Hello, Because of the numbers on some collars and the obsolete weaponry, this is obviously a Landsturm unit. If you could give the numbers (they're too small for me to decipher), you can know from which Infantry Brigade the unit was created. Regards, Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 6 September , 2015 Share Posted 6 September , 2015 Newbie trying to acquire knowledge of as many facts as possible to be gleaned from this (and a couple of other) family photos showing great uncle, Peter Gruler, at far left standing over the "X", besides the obvious (yes, he was a german soldier I just found out that the name "Gruler" is an uncommon name and is from Württemberg. This would mean that your relative's Kriegsstammrolle should be available in the military archives in Stuttgart... Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldport Posted 6 September , 2015 Author Share Posted 6 September , 2015 Thanks Jan !! Family is from Freiburg. To me it seems only two soldiers in OP-photo appear to wear collar numbers ("12" "42"): those kneeling at each opposite end Here is another picture of Peter (on the right, on cigarette break) ..... have no translation of handwriting (other than date which appears to read 6 August 1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 6 September , 2015 Share Posted 6 September , 2015 Probably stating the obvious, but from the uniforms and equipment the first photo looks to be early-war timeframe while the second is much later. The date on the second photo appears to be August 1918 so that would match. Looks like a change of unit too, now apparently wearing "litzen".? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 7 September , 2015 Share Posted 7 September , 2015 Thanks Jan !! Family is from Freiburg. To me it seems only two soldiers in OP-photo appear to wear collar numbers ("12"): those kneeling at each opposite end Here is another picture of Peter (on the right, on cigarette break) ..... have no translation of handwriting (other than date which appears to read 6 August 1916) Uncle Peter Gruler in France 6 Aug 1916.jpg Hello, it says: Ein Widersehen [should be Wiedersehen] im Felde am 6.8.1918 in Russland Uziany. I think this may be nowadays Utena in Lithuania (but I'm not sure). The numbers "12" on a collar would refer to a Landsturm Unit of the III. Armeekorps (Brandenburg). Did your relative move from Freiburg before the war? If you have more cards or writings, please post them as they may help to find out to which unit(s) he belonged. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 7 September , 2015 Share Posted 7 September , 2015 Hello Oldport! Are you sure with 1 single 12? If there ain´t no roman numeral added to the 12, it´s 12.Inf.Brig. from Brandenburg (near Berlin). This markings had the Landsturm units until 1915. Since 1915 they used the roman numerals for the armycorps and a number for the unit. If he is born in Freiburg, the XIV.Armycorps would fit. The Landsturm unit XIV.12 was the 2.Landsturm-Infanterie-Bataillon Mosbach, but that is 215km from Freiburg... Freiburg had the following Landsturm-Bataillons: XIV.7 XIV.22 XIV.25 XIV.38 COULD it be XIV.22? The early (until 1915) marking of the Landsturm in Freiburg is a single 57 (57.Inf.Brig. Freiburg) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 7 September , 2015 Share Posted 7 September , 2015 Jaja, die deutschen Frühausfsteher... Oh yes, the both german early birds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldport Posted 7 September , 2015 Author Share Posted 7 September , 2015 Dear Jan, Prussian and shippingsteel Thanks so much for your help. Wow, Russia (or Lithuania) - I had no idea. My bad on the collar dog - now I'm seeing the only two apparent numbers as "42" not twelve - here are enlarged screenshots of two kneeling soldiers each end of OP-photo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 7 September , 2015 Share Posted 7 September , 2015 Hmmm, a 42 doesn´t fit to Baden... Inf.Brig.42 stands in Frankfurt/Main (XVIII. army corps) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldport Posted 7 September , 2015 Author Share Posted 7 September , 2015 Edited first two pictures above to add image of handwriting on back of picture-postcards. I'd be most appreciative of translations (please!). Danke schön Here is one more photo of Peter with his wife and a zoomed screenshot image of symbol(?) or letter(?) on his epaulette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 7 September , 2015 Share Posted 7 September , 2015 Strange, strange, mate... The uniform is infantry, but the shoulder strap looks like a "K" for Kraftfahrer (Driver). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldport Posted 7 September , 2015 Author Share Posted 7 September , 2015 Thanks Andy Frankfurt am Main is where photo with wife was taken - maybe he drove ("K") there from Freiburg I will dig some more in old correspondence and maybe establish in which city he may have lived Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 7 September , 2015 Share Posted 7 September , 2015 Is the man with the wife the same man with the 42? If yes, he probably was born in Freiburg, and the he moved to Frankfurt. maybe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWK Posted 7 September , 2015 Share Posted 7 September , 2015 Erinnerung an Frankreich = Memory/Souvenir of France and Mein jüngster Bruder Wilhelm der jetzt verunglückt (und) gestorben ist am 4 Dezember 1919 My younger brother Wilhelm who died in an accident on 4th december 1919 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldport Posted 7 September , 2015 Author Share Posted 7 September , 2015 Dear JWK - you are awesome, thanks so much !! Do you think "Bruder" means blood-brother or just brother-in-arms? Andy, the 42-collar-zoomed-screenshots are of two soldiers, kneeling, at each end of original-post photo. Agreed; I will continue to research if there may have been a move to Frankfurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWK Posted 7 September , 2015 Share Posted 7 September , 2015 Dear JWK - you are awesome, thanks so much !! Do you think "Bruder" means blood-brother or just brother-in-arms? Andy, the 42-collar-zoomed-screenshots are of two soldiers, kneeling, at each end of original-post photo. Agreed; I will continue to research if there may have been a move to Frankfurt. Bruder = blood-brother. Brother-in-arms would be something like Kamerad (Comrade) And it's actually his youngest brother, the baby-bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 8 September , 2015 Share Posted 8 September , 2015 So it was Wilhelm Gruler who was in Uziany and not Peter. Peter seems to have been in a Landsturm unit from Frankfurt/Main and later transferred to the Kraftfahrer, not that uncommon as the need for logistics rose quickly and the number of motorized vehicles and units increased a lot during the war. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 8 September , 2015 Share Posted 8 September , 2015 That´s right. Sometimes they only get the drivers shoulder straps and held their old infantry uniforms. Drivers had swedish cuffs, silver collar-Litzen (not in Bavaria!) and a black cap-band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldport Posted 8 September , 2015 Author Share Posted 8 September , 2015 Thank you all very much gentlemen, I am flabbergasted by your generosity, knowledge and these resulting revelations JWK, now understanding Peter had a brother (on the eastern front no less) is huge new knowledge Jan, I am understanding from the written message under the second photo that BOTH Wilhelm (at left) and Peter (at right) were on the eastern front. So that would mean two transfers: France-to-Uziany and Uziany-to-Frankfurt (if I have the chronology correctly) Andy, your pictures are crystal clear. Comparing shape of stitching of the two pictures I see some variation but not enough to say they are different. Concerning the black cap-band you identify, does Peter's Frankfurt/Main picture show he is wearing one too? I may go silent on my front for a couple of days as I am busy at work for a bit, but then will dig in my Grandmother's archives to see what else I can find Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 8 September , 2015 Share Posted 8 September , 2015 Hi Oldport! I don´t think to see a black capband, but like I said, Kraftfahrer and Landsturm... There was not always prussian order... In the peactime everything was 100% correctly, but late in war? The photos from Russia were from 1918. The shoulderstraps always shows the unit, but the rest of the uniform not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 8 September , 2015 Share Posted 8 September , 2015 Strange, strange, mate... The uniform is infantry, but the shoulder strap looks like a "K" for Kraftfahrer (Driver). I thought that drivers as such as had automobile badges on their collars? So, he is with the Kraftfahrtruppen but not a driver? Also, I understood that Prussian units had numbers under the 'K', only Bavarians had a 'K' on its own? Happy to be set right if necessary on both of these points! That´s right. Sometimes they only get the drivers shoulder straps and held their old infantry uniforms. Drivers had swedish cuffs, silver collar-Litzen (not in Bavaria!) and a black cap-band Leather gaiters on this chap are regulation issue, I think? And again, a single stand-alone 'K' which I thought was Bavarian? Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 8 September , 2015 Share Posted 8 September , 2015 Hello Trajan! Automobile badges were worn at the leather tunic. Drivers always had a single K. A K with a number was "Starkstrom-Abteilung" (High-voltage-detachement). The difference between Prussia and Bavaria was, Prussian troops had collar Litzen, bavarians not. Here a automobile badge on leather and a High-Voltage soldier: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 9 September , 2015 Share Posted 9 September , 2015 Hello Trajan! Automobile badges were worn at the leather tunic. Drivers always had a single K. A K with a number was "Starkstrom-Abteilung" (High-voltage-detachement). The difference between Prussia and Bavaria was, Prussian troops had collar Litzen, bavarians not. Here a automobile badge on leather and a High-Voltage soldier: Many thanks! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken S. Posted 9 September , 2015 Share Posted 9 September , 2015 1914 Freiburg city directory shows three Gruler households: http://dl.ub.uni-freiburg.de/diglit/adr1914/0165?sid=a44b5a7c0e35e3e04039a871561cb508 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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