katesdad Posted 16 November , 2004 Share Posted 16 November , 2004 I've read that soldiers ammo boots were issued without hobnails, which were later added by either the regimental farriers or cobblers. Anyone ever heard of this practice, and if so any idea where I might look for examples? My Grandfather was in the Manchesters, me I'm a Cadet Instructor these days (retired from active service after 22 years). My old ammo boots that I use for parade need to be reironed after this Remembrance Day, and I thought I might get them nailed as a tribute tot he old warhorse. Larry Bedford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutley Posted 16 November , 2004 Share Posted 16 November , 2004 Larry I have a pair of boots marked 1918 which have 13 studs on the sole and a horseshoe style piece on the heel, the studs/hobnails(they are extremely worn down) are in two rows of four, a row of three and a row of two nearest the toe. Can't say for sure if these boots were worn at the time or if they were made then and worn later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Beckett Posted 16 November , 2004 Share Posted 16 November , 2004 Larry, some-one at the Sutlers stores may be able to help. See the boots on their web page http://www.sutlers.co.uk/acatalog/THE_SUTL...D_WAR_I_74.html Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 17 November , 2004 Share Posted 17 November , 2004 Hobnail patterns in WW1 has already been covered: http://1914-1918.org/forum/index.php?showt...635&hl=hobnails Regarding the Sutlers, they are just about the least helpful people I've ever dealt with! When the product arrives I've had no problems, but getting it to arrive... tried to order a reproduction messtin from them, but was told it was out of stock, with fresh deliveries in the next week or so. Few months later, I rang to chase this up - was told it was out of stock, with fresh deliveries in the next week or so Cancelled the order then and there. Plus, they rarely (read: never) answer emails where it is obvious you aren't prepared to spend anything over £100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 17 November , 2004 Share Posted 17 November , 2004 I heard that story several times Andrew... You are not alone pal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Beckett Posted 17 November , 2004 Share Posted 17 November , 2004 Andrew, thanks for that update. I was thinking of ordering a belt with the S pattern clasp from them. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 17 November , 2004 Share Posted 17 November , 2004 peter you better mail to http://www.schipperfabrik.com/ They make excellent P14 gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Beckett Posted 17 November , 2004 Share Posted 17 November , 2004 Thanks, mate. I have sent Paul an email Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 17 November , 2004 Share Posted 17 November , 2004 Larry, There were no prescribed Hobnail patterns. You are correct about boots being issued without nails, at least at first. When war broke out boots were issued with a heel tip and sometimes a toe tip and no hobnails. Clothing regulations actually contained a warning that boots of welted construction “should not under any circumstances be completely hobnailed as it destroys the boots, but few hobnails may be inserted in the parts most likely to wear”. So hobnailing was left to the unit, not individual. I would not be surprised if some units may have prescribed nail patterns but have not come across any evidence. Nailing would very much depend on how the sole was constructed. B2 boots usually had more nails since the sole was only sewn. Other boots in the B series were sewn/pegged and constructed with rows of small fitting nails not really requiring hobnailing. In 1915 a pattern called the B5 was introduced which did have Nails supplied. But only in the toe area around the tip. Sometimes additional nails are seen on the heel but I'm not sure if those were added later at unit. In 1918 another pattern series was introduced that had toe caps and clump soles the clump soles were issued hobnailed. This series of boot, I believe, never made it to France as it was introduced too late. Attached in this photo. Are a B5 boot from 1918, upper left, and a B2 upper right. The lower left boot is unidentified pattern, I believe is actually WWI but not 100% sure. It fits into certain patterns that the TF bought outside of the WO channels and also patterns procured through the DADOS and Command areas to meet demands. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 17 November , 2004 Share Posted 17 November , 2004 Larry, For more reference attached is another photo showing in the upper left the 1918 pattern boot with clump sole and hobnails. The boot on the upper right is another 1917 dated B5, it's heavily worn but at one time had a few French nails added. The lower left boot is a 1917 dated FS boot. The sole has been almostly completely nailed in a French style, that is done by a contracted French cobbler during refurbishment at depot. So any pattern can be acceptable within reason. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katesdad Posted 17 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 17 November , 2004 Thanks all, especially the photos. I'm in touch with the Manchester Regiment Living History group, but haven't had a reply yet. Looks like although there were some who had boots nailed in a pattern particular to a regiment etc, chances are the difference only reflects the way in which a particular saddler, cobbler etc chose to hammer them in. Looks like I just keep with what I've worn for the last 30 years, 13 set of 3 in 4, 4, 3, 2. Any Guardsmen out there will know what I'm talking about. All others can see below (note the ones missing on the left boot, courtesy of this year's Remembrance Sunday Parade). Not sure what era these are, they weren't new when I inherited them, but most likely 60's 70's vintage. Nice to see some things haven't changed. I'll keep you all posted if I hear anything different. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnreed Posted 17 November , 2004 Share Posted 17 November , 2004 I did have a photo which I have posted before on the forum, Kristof will know what I am talking about. I do agree with the numer of studs or hobnails as qty 13 laid out as you say. rEGARDS jOHN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 17 November , 2004 Share Posted 17 November , 2004 also discussed earlier here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 24 November , 2004 Share Posted 24 November , 2004 Here are a bunch of happy recruits, showing a variety of nail patterns. Any idea of their unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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