Edinkillie War Memorial.

[mysie]

Hi while we were driving home from Forres yesterday we came across Edinkillie Parish Churchyard. My husband went in to photo any ww1 graves . He was kindly given a copy of Edinkillie Soldiers who gave their lives in the Great war. There are two men on it called John Pirrie Tulloch, from Longlea, and a John Durrant, it appears there is no information on the soldiers ,no record of which service they were in ,nor any records of where they were killed or died.I know it is a long shot but anyone out there have anything on the two men.Thanks in advance .

Mary.

[seaforths]

Possibly 241769 L/Cpl John Tulloch 7th Bn Seaforth Hrs. KIA 21 March 1918. Enlisted Nairn.

There was a William Tulloch of Edinkillie also served - possibly related.

[seaforths]

Bit of a long shot on John Durrant:

7th QO Cameron Hrs. 200267 Pte John Durrant. Birth Place: London, Middlesex. Residence given as: Dundee. Enlisted: Kingusssie

But Edinkillie Parish War Memorial has him as John Durrant - Dava.

I'm just looking for likely candidates from SDGW. If forum pal sfarrell doesn't see this, it might be worth dropping him a PM. I think it may well be his territory.

[rolt968]

Bit of a long shot on John Durrant:

7th QO Cameron Hrs. 200267 Pte John Durrant. Birth Place: London, Middlesex. Residence given as: Dundee. Enlisted: Kingusssie

But Edinkillie Parish War Memorial has him as John Durrant - Dava.

I'm just looking for likely candidates from SDGW. If forum pal sfarrell doesn't see this, it might be worth dropping him a PM. I think it may well be his territory.

Perhaps not such a long shot!

In the 1911 Census: John Durrant, 21, Farm Labourer, Born London was at Glenferness? Main Farm, Ardclach, Nairn. I think the only John Durrant in Scotland at the time.

In the 1901 Census: John Durrant, 10, Born London was an Inmate of Aberlour Orphanage, Banffshire.

An unmarried farm labourer could move more than once between 1911 and 1914. It is one of the difficulties with identifying names on Scottish rural war memorials.

I suspect that John Durrant was boarded out to a farm from the orphanage.

RM

Edit: Does anyone know if there was an Aberlour Orphanage memorial (and where it is now)?

Edit 2: Here it is with John Durrant on it!

http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/warmemscot-ptopic7320.html

[kenmorrison]

Mary - any photos to add, please?

http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/scottishwargraves-ftopic316.html&highlight=edinkillie

Ken

[seaforths]

Ooh nice work! I know Edinkillie is a bit of a nightmare to work on. My great great great grandparents were from there, married there and great great grandfather born there. I then spent some time tracking them across to Morayshire, Banffshire back to Morayshire. Sorry, I'm digressing.

What a great piece of work on the orphanage. I didn't check the census I must admit. Now trying to work out John Tulloch...

I looked at the Morayshire and Nairnshire Rolls and I picked up a William Tulloch. I will re-check in a minute but CWGC have John Tulloch as son of William and Elizabeth Tulloch, of Foynesfield, Nairn.

[mysie]

Thanks Seaforths,Rolt968, sorry Ken the author could find nothing on the two men at all.Thats why i thought it might be worth a try on here.

Thanks folks

Mary.

Mary - any photos to add, please?
http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/scottishwargraves-ftopic316.html&highlight=edinkillie

Ken

Sorry Ken nothing at all. Ken i thought you were talking about photo's in the book. My husband got the 1 cwgc stone he could see Andrew Munro, he did not know there was another ww1 burial Lewis Alexander Anderson .

Edited 31 August , 2015 by mysie

[seaforths]

The John Tulluch, 7th Seaforth is indeed the brother of William Tulloch of 2nd Seaforth and both commemorated on Auldearn War Memorial. Both Nairnshire Roll.

I picked up another William Dunbar Tulloch in Morayshire Roll. Born Edinkillie, 22 April 1896. Son of Alexander and Jessie Tulloch, 55 Granary Street, Burghead but can't see a link from him to any possible John Tulloch on CWGC.

[rolt968]

The John Tulluch, 7th Seaforth is indeed the brother of William Tulloch of 2nd Seaforth and both commemorated on Auldearn War Memorial. Both Nairnshire Roll.

I picked up another William Dunbar Tulloch in Morayshire Roll. Born Edinkillie, 22 April 1896. Son of Alexander and Jessie Tulloch, 55 Granary Street, Burghead but can't see a link from him to any possible John Tulloch on CWGC.

I followed up William Dunbar Tulloch. There doesn't seem to be a brother John. There was a John Tulloch (aged 58) living in Edinkillie in 1911, but he had only had one child (a daughter) who died in 1908.

RM

[seaforths]

Can strike the latter William Tulloch as being connected. He doesn't seem to have any brothers at the 1901 census.

[seaforths]

I followed up William Dunbar Tulloch. There doesn't seem to be a brother John. There was a John Tulloch (aged 58) living in Edinkillie in 1911, but he had only had one child (a daughter) who died in 1908.

RM

Whoops sorry I cross posted after you - yes 1901 census he has a 1 year old sister and no brothers.

There is a s/13734 L/Cpl John Tulloch on the Loos Memorial according to CWGC. He is also 7 QO Cameron Hrs. and no other information on him mentioned.

Edit: SDGW has him as enlisting in Glasgow. Born Helensburgh. Residence: Gailes, Nr. Irvine, Ayrshire so looking less likely.

[rolt968]

The CWGC gives the names of parents for the 200264 (not 200267) John Durrant. Having said that I haven't actually found those parents with a son called John.

[seaforths]

The CWGC gives the names of parents for the 200264 (not 200267) John Durrant. Having said that I haven't actually found those parents with a son called John.

Aplogies for that one. Right hand and left hand need to know their proper place on the keyboard! I hit forefinger right instead of left. 200264 it is. Struggling with John Tulloch and a link to Edinkillie. Unless he's another orphan born far away with no obvious links to Edinkillie.

[mysie]

Just read what the author has on John Durrant ,and in his words, i am only guessing but there was a John Durrant in the Aberlour Orphanage and it could be him. but can find no other record of his death in WW1.

Mary.

[rolt968]

The CWGC gives the names of parents for the 200264 (not 200267) John Durrant. Having said that I haven't actually found those parents with a son called John.

Having said that, according to Soldiers' Effects, the effects were allocated to his sister Annie. There is no will or application for administration

[seaforths]

I think I have John 'Pirrie' Tulloch. At least I have a man who's mother's name is June J Pirie. According to soldiers effects.

However, he is John Moir Tulloch, 8825 CQMS, 2 Seaforth. Grave registration on CWGC has him as Tullock

That's as far as I've got and a slim link with the name Pirie so it could be something or nothing.

Morayshire Roll has him as born at Pluscarden son of 'Jane Tulloch'. Pre-war service and an MM too.

Edit: Actually, on zoom it looks like his mother's name is Mrs Jane J Pirie which conflicts with name in Morayshire Roll but then his name of John Moir Tulloch conflicts with John Pirrie Tulloch...

However, there is often conflicting information on Memorials and the Morayshire Roll has its fair share of errors but in this instance it ties in with the most of the information on CWGC as far as his proper name being given as John Moir Tulloch. It may have been his mother that chose to have him commemorated at Edinkillie as John Pirrie Tulloch. It wasn't as though he could protest about it. I'm struggling to put together census information on John and Jane

[seaforths]

Now I have managed to get onto a PC and checked the Moray Archives (no idea why it won't work on an iPad) but am pretty certain now that John Moir Tulloch, CQMS, 2 Seaforth and John 'Pirrie' Tulloch are one and the same person:

[rolt968]

Well done, I think this is the man! (I was looking the wrong way round; for a mother who was a Pirie who subsequently married a Tulloch.)

John Moir Tulloch, born Barnmill, Pluscarden, 12 May 1883, Illegitimate, mother, Jane Tulloch, domestic servant. Jane Tulloch married William Pirie in Pluscarden in 1889.

A bit more to come.

RM

Edit: There was a paternity action in Elgin Sheriff Court. The father was John Moir of Station Road, Forres.

Jane Tulloch was born in Alves.

[mysie]

Thanks folks superb work. The guy that wrote the book is a Mark Laing, Dunphail House. There is no other contact details but he does ask at the end if anyone has any information then could they please contact him.You folks have done all the hard work so do one of you wish to try and contact him and get the credit you deserve. I would think he might also be contacted through the church .We are going to be back up in that area as my husband has 4 graves still to find in Cluny Hill Cemetery Forres and the one he missed in Edinkillie Itself, but it wont be till nearer the end of September. So just let me know what you want to do, thanks again for all your hard work.

Mary.

Edited 1 September , 2015 by mysie

[seaforths]

I passed hm over begrudgingly in the Morayshire Roll first time around because I thought in terms of parishes, Pluscarden birthplace looked quite promisiing for someone later in Edinkillie but the name John Moir Tulloch - all wrong - so I moved swiftly on. It wasn't until I decided to go through all the John Tullochs systematically in Soldiers' Effects, that I spotted the Pirie.

I was thinking along the lines of illegitimate because one of my granddad's cousins was illegitimate and his middle name is a nod to who his father was and it made me think that the name Moir was possibly the same.

Ahhh you've just edited while I was slurping my tea!

Edit: He enlisted 1904 so at the age of 22, he may have been working the years prior at Longlea, hence the connection.

[mysie]

Now I have managed to get onto a PC and checked the Moray Archives (no idea why it won't work on an iPad) but am pretty certain now that John Moir Tulloch, CQMS, 2 Seaforth and John 'Pirrie' Tulloch are one and the same person:

john tulloch1.JPG

john tulloch2.JPG

Just noticed that the TP Younie mentioned is one of the graves my husband never found on Sunday.

[seaforths]

Thanks folks superb work. The guy that wrote the book is a Mark Laing, Dunphail House. There is no other contact details but he does ask at the end if anyone has any information then could they please contact him.You folks have done all the hard work so do one of you wish to try and contact him and get the credit you deserve. I would think he might also be contacted through the church .We are going to be back up in that area as my husband has 4 graves still to find in Cluny Hill Cemetery Forres and the one he missed in Edinkillie Itself, but it wont be till nearer the end of September. So just let me know what you want to do, thanks again for all your hard work.

Mary.

There are more newspaper snippets on him. I think the 'Forres Gazette' and the 'Forres News' which might include a photograph. They can be accessed at the the Moray Archives in Elgin, if you have the time. I'm on the dratted iPad again but can post chapter and verse later.

I'll not be likely to be in the area again this year and I'm happy for you to pass on the info. and me to remain anon.

[mysie]

There are more newspaper snippets on him. I think the 'Forres Gazette' and the 'Forres News' which might include a photograph. They can be accessed at the the Moray Archives in Elgin, if you have the time. I'm on the dratted iPad again but can post chapter and verse later.

I'll not be likely to be in the area again this year and I'm happy for you to pass on the info. and me to remain anon.

Right Seaforth only to happy to pass on your information, i will copy it down and now have an address for the Church so i will post it up to Edinkillie.Thanks again.

[rolt968]

A bit more! The RCE (Register of Corrected Entries - for those not used to Scottish BMD) for John Moir Tulloch is interesting. Apart from the fact that the instruction to insert the name of John Moir as father on the birth record has not actually been carried out, Jane Tulloch's name appears as "(Poor) Jane Tulloch".

I suspected that this meant that Jane had applied for poor relief and the parish authorities had probably instructed her to name the father and so they could pursue him for support (a bit like the Child Support Agency).

She did indeed apply for support. There is a brief entry in the Morayshire Archives online people search, but there will be more detail on microfiche in the Morayshire Archives in Elgin.

She is listed as having lived at Inchellon, Pluscarden and Clackmarrass. She applied for poor relief in Elgin in 1888. There also are other entries listed. Four children, including John are listed.

[seaforths]

A bit more! The RCE (Register of Corrected Entries - for those not used to Scottish BMD) for John Moir Tulloch is interesting. Apart from the fact that the instruction to insert the name of John Moir as father on the birth record has not actually been carried out, Jane Tulloch's name appears as "(Poor) Jane Tulloch".

I suspected that this meant that Jane had applied for poor relief and the parish authorities had probably instructed her to name the father and so they could pursue him for support (a bit like the Child Support Agency).

She did indeed apply for support. There is a brief entry in the Morayshire Archives online people search, but there will be more detail on microfiche in the Morayshire Archives in Elgin.

She is listed as having lived at Inchellon, Pluscarden and Clackmarrass. She applied for poor relief in Elgin in 1888. There also are other entries listed. Four children, including John are listed.

Wow - busy little bee!! The record on illegitimates do make very interesting reading. I actually have two of them as ancestors. My granddad's uncle was birth registered as Minty but raised by his father (who then married someone else) as Morrison, he went on to marry as Morrison and his father's details on marriage were 'reported to be' and he died a Morrison. No record of a correction to his birth details ever having been made. William is a different story, his middle name was entered and not challenged. If my research is correct, I am 99% sure who his father was and there is no way he would have wanted any publicity, scandal etc. appearing in the newspapers to tarnish his good name and public reputation; not to mention the affect it would have had on his new and wealthy bride. As William was killed at Beaumont Hamel without marrying, I don't have the 1% I seek. As an aside both mother's were totally unrelated but both called Jane! While searching through births I have come across corrections for names to insert, change or legitimise (after the father married the mother).

I don't really have much to add at all other than newspaper entries in the Moray Archives, Elgin which, as I said earlier, might yield a photo:

‘Forres News’:

11/11/1916 p1. Col.1 Death notification

18/11/1916 p4. Col.1 Award of Military Medal

‘Forres Gazette’:

15/11/1916 p2. Col.2 Death notification

15/11/1916 p3. Col.5 Award of Military Medal

also:

‘Morayshire Roll of Honour’:

‘Tulloch. John M. No. 8825 C.S.M., and Seaforths; born at Pluscarden, 12th May 1882; joined at Fort George, 1904; served in France and Belgium; killed South East of Ghinchy, France, 23rd Oct, 1916; awarded Military Medal. Son of Jane Tulloch. Occupation, regular soldier.’

His burial original burial place, before he was moved, I have marked with a green dot between the letters 'e' and 's' of Lesboeufs and where he is buried now is indicated at the Guard's Cemetery.

Unfortunately, I can't do similar for John Durrant...John Durrant’s full name according to CWGC was John, Richard, Daniel, Durrant. Also CWGC, Son of, John Golden Stainer Durrant and Emma Wakefield Durrant, of Hackney, London. I wonder what happened for him to end up in an orphanage so far north...