notimetoulouse Posted 25 August , 2015 Share Posted 25 August , 2015 Hi everyone, I wonder if anyone could help with the following bits of research that are still outstanding (I'm v. happy with front line trench routine, but struggle slightly discerning old 'urban myths' from what actually went on). 1. Eating, heating and smoking. My grandfather used to tell of constantly scrounging wood from the rear areas for use in their trench braziers - did they smoke and light fires after nightly stand down? Urban myth and the third cigarette puff would say not, but he did talk as though it was common, especially in winter, or was this in Support trenches only. Has anyone any first hand knowledge? 2. As an ex SLR man, who would line up to load and unload before and after going out on patrol, was that level of safety built in to every day trench life? How did they unload/make safe an SMLE (e.g. would the magazine be taken off first as per the SLR prior to ejecting the live round in the breech), or would they constantly have one in the breech, safety catch on? Throughout my research I can see countless rifles resting against firesteps, bayonets attached and wonder what safety state they were in. 3. Did they have a declaration to make (no live rounds, empty cases etc)? 4. And lastly, I can see my Grandfather 'In Reserve' at the Prison in Ypres followed by a week in the line at Wieltje, then out in 'support' Ypres before going back in at Wieltje again. I'm happy with the distances involved in the Reserve part (I've walked the ground from the Prison to Wieltje) but I'm struggling with what they did in reserve. Constant carrying parties up to the front? Salvage? Support trench life however, has me gently at sea. How far back from the front line trench (FLT) would support trenches be normally? Did trench routine there mirror that in the FLT, or did it differ? Sorry for running in and throwing all this 'down on the desk' at the same time. Please advise me if I should have done this in a more cogent, and easily dealt with fashion. That said, I hope you can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burlington Posted 25 August , 2015 Share Posted 25 August , 2015 Can I suggest you read 'Death's men' by Denis Winter. Penguin. ISBN 0-14-01-016822-2. First published 1978. The title is misleading. Though it does contain reminiscences, it is essentially a series of essays on various aspects on the war. Chapters on eg: Trench life, Trench weapons, Strain of trench warfare, Into rest, Training and so on. Really excellent. highly recommended. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombadier Posted 25 August , 2015 Share Posted 25 August , 2015 Magazine was not a removable item for the average Tommy. Rounds were loaded from the top using 5 round chargers and unloaded by working the bolt. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notimetoulouse Posted 25 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 25 August , 2015 Can I suggest you read 'Death's men' by Denis Winter. Penguin. ISBN 0-14-01-016822-2. First published 1978. The title is misleading. Though it does contain reminiscences, it is essentially a series of essays on various aspects on the war. Chapters on eg: Trench life, Trench weapons, Strain of trench warfare, Into rest, Training and so on. Really excellent. highly recommended. Martin Thanks very much for this Martin - just found it unused for next to nothing and it's on its way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 25 August , 2015 Share Posted 25 August , 2015 (edited) 2. As an ex SLR man, who would line up to load and unload before and after going out on patrol, was that level of safety built in to every day trench life? How did they unload/make safe an SMLE (e.g. would the magazine be taken off first as per the SLR prior to ejecting the live round in the breech), or would they constantly have one in the breech, safety catch on? Throughout my research I can see countless rifles resting against firesteps, bayonets attached and wonder what safety state they were in. 3. Did they have a declaration to make (no live rounds, empty cases etc)? I would agree with the suggestion to read "Death's Men" (if you want a pictoral survey John Ellis' "Eye Deep in Hell" has lots of images. Your best source for information on the ShtLE questions would probably be the various contemporary musketry instruction manuals someof which are available online. The 1909(14) version was reprinted by Naval and Military Press in 2010 I think. As noted the magazine was not to be removed except during cleaning. On early Magazine Lee-Enfields (MLE) it was, in fact, attached to the rifle by a chain link /loop braised to the front of the magazine. Earlier SMLEs retained the Magazine cut-off plate which by 1914 was used as an additional safety device not a fire control device. Regarding the rifles propped up in trenches, if you look at the photos and examine the rear of the bolt you can often see the state of the rifle. If the rifle is cocked the cocking piece projects noticeably. It is also often possible to see the position of the safety. Anecdotally in several pictures (well known ones) that I recall the rifles are cocked with the safety engaged in those contexts. Chris Edit: I'll post a pic or the two states for reference in a moment. Edited 25 August , 2015 by 4thGordons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notimetoulouse Posted 25 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 25 August , 2015 Magazine was not a removable item for the average Tommy. Rounds were loaded from the top using 5 round chargers and unloaded by working the bolt. Nigel Thanks Nigel. I really ought to get myself down to Fultons in Bisley for the look and feel of a deactivated SMLE. I'm picking up that it was most probably round in the chamber, safety catch on most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 25 August , 2015 Share Posted 25 August , 2015 here are the musketry regs online Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 25 August , 2015 Share Posted 25 August , 2015 Uncocked - safety not engaged Cocked - safety engaged Cocked - safety disengaged ready for firing Top view cocked - magazine cut off in place (safety on) Top view cocked magazine cutoff "off" safety off - ready for firing. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notimetoulouse Posted 25 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 25 August , 2015 Chris this is exceptional help, thanks very much. I missed a really inexpensive deactivated 1917 SMLE and bayonet/scabbard two months ago due to laziness on my part, thinking it would be there a week later. It's finding a nice one at the right price now from a seller who isn't a shark. And I now see what you meant by the cocking piece being visible. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 25 August , 2015 Admin Share Posted 25 August , 2015 Photo of trench brazier in IWM Collection http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205062503 And photo 4 in this series http://www.iwm.org.uk/history/10-photos-of-life-in-the-trenches Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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