Territorial Force Mobilization 1914

[Arnie]

Territorial Force Mobilization 1914

Why didn’t Kitchener use the TF as the Base for his new Armies?

I often read in many books on the subject of the beginning of the Great War and the mobilization of the British Army, that Kitchener may have ignored Haldane’s original plan for the TF to be the basis of a European sized army’s creation. The reason would seem to be the TF had problems with their men signing the pledge to serve over seas and not stick to their UK Defence only contract.

This assumption would seem to be difficult to believe in the light of TF mobilization. The TF started to move to France in September 1914, other were on their way abroad to relieve Regular garrisons around the world. Some TF Divisions were in the line in early 1915. It doesn’t seem therefore to have been a problem with getting the TF soldiers to sign the pledge and go abroad.

I think there were other reasons: Kitchener and many regular officers had an antithapy towards the TF, a hang over from the Boar war.

During the Boar War the Volunteer (TF) officer thought their regular colleagues were on the whole lazy and unprofessional and the soldiers had had all the initiative knocked out of them and whose shooting was poor compared to the Volunteer soldiers.

On the other hand the regulars thought that the Volunteers were ill disciplined, scruffy and altogether too familiar.

The Volunteers caused Kitchener a great deal of problems after returning to England writing to newspapers about the poor condition in the army in Africa, especially in the Hospitals. It was ex Volunteers who wrote articles supporting Miss Emily Hobhouse in her Condemnation of Kitcheners Concentration Camps for the families of Boar Commandos.

An other reason why the regulars were not to happy with the Volunteers were very few volunteered to stay in Africa after the initial twelve months service was over and when asked why the many complained about the treatment at the hands of the regulars.

On mobilization certain members of the TF who had compassionate problems were persuaded to stay in UK by their officers. This turned out to be a good move has the TF were able to raise and train so called third line divisions, many were excellent and were soon sent to France.

Arnie

[Guest Clinton Brunt]

Hi Arnie,

I think you really answered your own question- Kitchener, and many other Regular officers, felt the TF wasn't anything of real use. Naturally, Kitchener did what he wanted as he had the authority to do so and simply tossed the TF aside.

But more importantly, the TF by law couldn't be forced to serve overseas. So why raise a force for overseas service that by law, can decide to not go overseas? So new force had to be raised that side-stepped this little quirk.

Just my thoughts!

Sincerely,

Clint

[T8HANTS]

Hi Arnie

Kitchener’s antipathy towards the TF soldier goes much further back than the Boer War. As a young officer he had witnessed the collapse of the French Territorial during the Franco-Prussian War, but they were an entirely different type of soldier to the British Terrier, be mush older and not very well trained.

It should be noted in that immediately creating the ”New Armies” Kitchener threw Haldanes well oiled machine into absolute chaos. All of a sudden there was a double draw on men and material instead of feeding supplies as they became available ever closer to the fully trained fighting head of the army, we ended up with two organisations shouting for equipment and more importantly officers and N.C.O.’s with experience to train them both.

This it could be argued is why the Territorial Forces were poorly equipped, going into action with few machine guns, the older Long Lee Enfield, and limited artillery. The New Armies had the bottom of the pile for officers and N.C.O.’s . Kitchener had indeed been far sighted in setting up the New Armies, but in throwing aside a plan that Haldane had worked out so well, (proven by the almost perfect mobilization of the original BEF), I believe he actually caused unnecessary casualties through limited/obsolete equipment, chronically under trained troops, not up to speed on “Modern Warfare”, and creating a situation where the National effort was trying ride two horses at once........Gareth

[Arnie]

Clint

TF by law couldn't be forced to serve overseas.

Once a TF soldier had signed to go abroad that was it that remained in his records while ever he served in the TF and it was a complicated proceedure to change it.

TB

I agree with most of what you say, I do think that some of the problems caused by Kitchener's recruiting methods were:

He did not look far enough a head, he swept into the army skilled men that were essential to the war effort. The shell shortage that was blamed by the Generals on the Government and even the trade unions was caused by the loss of skilled men into the army.

By not having a proper enlistment proceedure many under age boys were enlisted. 15% of the total I think. This created a lot of bitterness towards the army from these boys families. The army to the very end of voluntary enlistment, refused to have the recruiters ask to see potential recruits birth certificates.

Kitchener wanted the new armies to be modeled on the regular armies, trouble was, they had many of the regular armies faults and did not have the time to learn the virtues.

Arnie

[Guest Clinton Brunt]

Hi Arnie,

Once a TF soldier had signed to go abroad that was it that remained in his records while ever he served in the TF and it was a complicated proceedure to change it.

That's quite true. But there was no complusion for anyone to initially sign to go abroad. Not that many didn't but the possiblity remains. Reminds me of an image of I believe three TF men posing for a photo, with the badge for volunteering for overseas service being visible on only two- the third at that time not having volunteered to overseas service.

So while that issue may not have weighed heavily on Kitchener's mind, I would consider an enlistee with a a choice of where he served (home or overseas) could be a real hindrance in such a war of massive numbers, whereas New Army enlistee had no such 'option'. Or perhaps not.

Again, just my thoughts!

Sincerely,

Clint

[Anthony Pigott]

S.-D. was very much in favour of using the TF as the basis of the 'New Armies'. He writes of being very impressed with them while CO of Southern Command prior to the outbreak of war and had, presumably, experience of them during the South African War.

In August 1914, he made strong representations to Kitchener about it, including, at Kitchener's request, a detailed proposal. I haven't seen the content, but from what S.-D. says, it involved using the TF as training cadres rather than directly using them as complete units.

Anthony

[Arnie]

Anthony

I believe that using the TF as training Cadre was one of Haldanes options, but it was not intended to involve all the TF in the training role. Certain units who had a good recruiting reputation would still have provided first line units.

Under/over age soldiers and those not volunteering for oversees were used as a training cadre for the 3rd line divisions.

According to my Grand father most of the TF had signed to go overseas as soon as war was declared. I don't think at lot of thought went into Kitchener's recruiting plan. I would like to know when the new armies plans were first thought out.

Arnie

PS Haldane never thought that the TF not wanting to go abroad would be an issue. We can of course turn the matter on its head by saying; 'If Kitchener was not sure that the TF would go abroad, how could he be sure that he would get sufficient civilians to go' Just a thought!

Arnie