gilly100 Posted 19 August , 2015 Share Posted 19 August , 2015 Hi All Can anyone identify this weapon as attached. I thought at first a Krupps 75mm mountain howitzer, but looking at other photos I think not. Any ideas? Thanks Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilly100 Posted 20 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 20 August , 2015 No takers? Ok, I have been advised it might be an infantry support weapon such as a type of mortar. Any thoughts? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 20 August , 2015 Share Posted 20 August , 2015 I am not an artillery buff, but I would think that one problem with ID'ing this is that the Ottoman army was short on field artillery and so used most things they could get their hands on, and so it could be a piece captured from the Russians, Bulgarians, etc., etc. That apart, size-wise, looks to me to be more like some kind of HMGun? Also, what is the source for the photograph? Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilly100 Posted 20 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 20 August , 2015 Understood Trajan and thanks for the reply. I was told by one with greater knowledge on this area that the weapon was a type of mortar and the bulbous object at end of barrel was the shell or projectile. I don't know. I shall pm you later with the source, but it was an Ottoman publication. Cheers Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 20 August , 2015 Share Posted 20 August , 2015 If it was a mobile medium mortar, I'd expect the wheels to come off for mounting, but those wheels don't appear to have any of the various types of 'quick-release' system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Haselgrove Posted 20 August , 2015 Share Posted 20 August , 2015 Ian, This website might be of interest: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=109530 Regards, Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 20 August , 2015 Share Posted 20 August , 2015 Hello friends! The photo is named as "Torpedo-Artillery" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilly100 Posted 20 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 20 August , 2015 Thanks everyone for the input and a much better image. I am currently tracking down from where this photo originated. Cheers Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 21 August , 2015 Share Posted 21 August , 2015 I forgot to show the link to the picture; but it´s only the photo, no further informations. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ottoman_torpedo_artillery_at_Gallipoli.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 21 August , 2015 Share Posted 21 August , 2015 Weird and wonderful... I did a quick search on Google Turkey for "Osmanlı torpido topçu", the literal translation, but nothing obviously related came up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 21 August , 2015 Share Posted 21 August , 2015 Well. The ball at the barrel reminds me at a trench mortar used by the Britains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Haselgrove Posted 21 August , 2015 Share Posted 21 August , 2015 I think Prussian is correct. What we see appear to be British 2" Medium Trench Mortar bombs, or "Toffee Apples". They appear to be fitted to converted, possibly obsolete, artillery pieces. If one looks beneath the gun in Prussian's photo one can see what looks like a heavy wooden base that will rest on the ground when the wheels are removed. The gun, it appears, is capable of firing at the high elevation necessary for a mortar. Since the British 2" mortar was introduced in about Spring 1915 it is quite possible the bombs were captured at Gallipoli. Having said that, I have read that the 2" Mortar was based on what was known of a design by Krupp. Pure conjecture, but could the mortars in the photo and the bombs have been supplied to Turkey by the Germans in circumstances where the Germans regarded them as obsolete? Of course, the above comments are speculation but since both "mortars" in the photo are fitted with what looks exactly like a bomb it seems unlikely they are anything other than mortars. Regards, Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilly100 Posted 21 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 21 August , 2015 Nice one Prussian and Michael. I also had it suggested to me as a mortar with a toffee apple bomb. Would be good to find out the weapon's country of origin, although clearly in Turk hands then. Thanks all for the input. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Scalyback Posted 21 August , 2015 Share Posted 21 August , 2015 This photograph may be of a trial firing of an experimental piece, there appears to be a bright metal cup supporting the projectile which would be painted on an operational piece. The Barrel is not from either a British 2" Mortar nor the 7.58cm Krupp Minenwerfer on which that was based. It appears to be a very old fashioned light howitzer with a heavy round breach block. There is a tall European looking man in the centre of the picture, possibly in Austrian Uniform or civilian clothes. The location is typically Thracian but does not look like it is anywhere near the front line, the concrete blockhouse and revetted ammunition store although camouflaged with brushwood do not look newly constructed. The style of the carriage seems Austrian. My guess, obsolete Austrian light mountain howitzers modified to test fire captured British 2" mortar Bombs with a breach loaded blank charge, on a proof range somewhere closer to Constantinople than Cape Helles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilly100 Posted 21 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 21 August , 2015 Fascinating now. I have the whole document now if anyone wants it, so PM away if you like. An Ottoman publication it seems in which this photo appears. Cheers Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Scalyback Posted 21 August , 2015 Share Posted 21 August , 2015 Thanks Ian for the full article which is in Turkish. Trajan can you translate the following which is the caption from the article. my Turkish runs to what I remember from service in Cyprus in 1969/70 and ran to ordering beer, kebab, and provoking village children to throw stones at trucks. Çanakkale cebhesindeki torpil toplarýmýzdan I recognise Canakkale as the place name of the fortress on the Anatolian side of the narrows at the entrance to the Sea of Marmara. edit Putting the second word into google finds articles in Turkish relating to Mustafa Kemel pasa ie Attaturk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 21 August , 2015 Share Posted 21 August , 2015 Hello friends! The photo is named as "Torpedo-Artillery" Aerial torpedo is one of the various names applied to trench mortar projectiles. Certainly crops up regularly in war diaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 22 August , 2015 Share Posted 22 August , 2015 Good morning! I zoomed the photo. I can´t recognize an austrian or another european soldier. To me all of them are turks #2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 22 August , 2015 Share Posted 22 August , 2015 The Wikimedia photograph gives the source as http://www. tsk.tr/8_TARIHTEN_KESITLER/8_3_Canakkale_Muharebelerinden_Kesitler/resimler/52b.jpg (amalgamate as one link) I found the photograph originally posted called Çanakkale'de Torpil Topu in this group of photographs called "Çanakkale Muharebelerinden Kesitler ve Fotoğraflar" http://www.tsk.tr/8_faydali_bilgiler/tarihtenkesitler.html. Then click on "Çanakkale Muharebelerinden Kesitler ve Fotoğraflar" Cheers Maureen (edited re links) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 22 August , 2015 Share Posted 22 August , 2015 Hi Maureen! Unfortunately you first link doesn´t work... It seems that this photo is the only one that was published. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 22 August , 2015 Share Posted 22 August , 2015 I have edited the links. The link to the group of photos works for me, accessing from the post above. Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Scalyback Posted 22 August , 2015 Share Posted 22 August , 2015 this piece looks similar, the Austrian 7 cm Gebirgsgeschütz M 99. There was also a model M8 and M9 with the same barrel on modified carriages. There were problems with recoil which were never satisfactorily resolved. The breach would dig into the ground at high elevations . Link to Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_cm_Gebirgsgesch%C3%BCtz_M_99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 22 August , 2015 Share Posted 22 August , 2015 ... my Turkish runs to what I remember from service in Cyprus in 1969/70 and ran to ordering beer, kebab, and provoking village children to throw stones at trucks. Çanakkale cebhesindeki torpil toplarýmýzdan Sounds slightly more advanced than mine presently is! I became VERY lazy when I married my Turkish wife - and I'll ask her later to do that translation. Good morning! I zoomed the photo. I can´t recognize an austrian or another european soldier. To me all of them are turks Yes, indeed. The striped 'kalabak' is a NCO/officer's one, and the chap with the fez has a beard-net - the kind worn by many sikhs, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 22 August , 2015 Share Posted 22 August , 2015 I have edited the links. The link to the group of photos works for me, accessing from the post above. Cheers Maureen To get to the image direct, click: http://www.tsk.tr/Content/img/tarihten_kesitler/canakkale-muharebeleri-kesitler-52.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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