Records of Grave Locations and Recovering Remains

[rolt968]

I have been thinking about what follows for several months in association with a few threads. I'm still not sure that I have got clear what I want to ask but her goes:

1. In Canadian soldiers' record there seems always to be slip giving details of where a casualty was buried including map references. Even if the body was not recovered at the time there seems to be a slip indicating that the body was not found. In some cases of course the grave was lost although its location was known from the record.

I have never found a similar document in a British soldier's record. Did this detailed documentary evidence of an individual British soldier's original grave exist and has since been lost?

2. When human remains were cleared from the battlefields immediately after the war were records of known burials used to find remains and identify and rebury casualties?

(I'm still not clear that I have explained what I want to know!)

RM

[ss002d6252]

I have never found a similar document in a British soldier's record. Did this detailed documentary evidence of an individual British soldier's original grave exist and has since been lost?

There are forms which sometimes appear in records which confirm the location of burial (often including map reference).

Craig

[rolt968]

There are forms which sometimes appear in records which confirm the location of burial (often including map reference).

Craig

Thanks Craig,

Presumably most have been lost, destroyed in 1940 or possibly even weeded out.

RM

[johnboy]

When human remains were cleared from the battlefields immediately after the war were records of known burials used to find remains and identify and rebury casualties?

I too have often thought about it.

Were map references given by burial parties? Were men just hastily buried out of respect and sanitary reasons? A group of men just put in a bomb crater and covered over would be unlikely to be able to identified some years later. Some graves with a known location could perhaps have moved a few yards or more with the continued fighting? How accurate 'KIA, Missing presumed dead' are , who knows. KIA with no known grave should relate to men who were reported as being seen dead and maybe having their ID tag and Pay Book removed and handed in. Missing Presumed Dead should refer to men who were missing at roll call, no one giving a statement and no record of them being a POW. How many on Theipval Memorial are listed as Missing Presumed Dead? Maybe they are just listed as KIA?

[Allison01]

Can I recommend Richard Van Emden's The Quick And The Dead? it cover's many of the points you have raised here and is a very interesting but heartbreaking read.

[johnboy]

This is a very interesting article.

http://www.vlib.us/wwi/resources/clearingthedead.html

[rolt968]

Can I recommend Richard Van Emden's The Quick And The Dead? it cover's many of the points you have raised here and is a very interesting but heartbreaking read.

I will add that to my reading list.

This is a very interesting article.

http://www.vlib.us/wwi/resources/clearingthedead.html

That's a very useful article!

Thank you both.

RM

[Allison01]

[rolt968]

I have read in two or three places of British chaplains recording as accurately as they could where they had buried casualties. In at least one case I'm sure he referred to drawing a map in his notebook. Were the chaplains required to do this? If so what happened to the notes or map or coordinates?

(An interesting thought occurred to me: did chaplains feel that they had to record where men were buried as a duty as priest rather than an army officer?)

RM

[Allison01]

No the recording wasn't a requirement in fact no official registration of graves until 1915 when a unit of men led by Fabian Ware were transferred to the Graves Registration Commission- the forerunner of the CWGC(ref The Quick And The Dead)

I presume any coordinates or maps would eventually be passed on to the commission.

[rolt968]

No the recording wasn't a requirement in fact no official registration of graves until 1915 when a unit of men led by Fabian Ware were transferred to the Graves Registration Commission- the forerunner of the CWGC(ref The Quick And The Dead)

I presume any coordinates or maps would eventually be passed on to the commission.

They might if the chaplain and his notebook survived. I wonder if any turned up in family papers later.