Bayonets for Martini Enfield 303 and Magazine Lee-Enfield Mk1* 303

[shippingsteel]

Does anyone have any photos of M-E .303 rifles and their bayonets in use between '14-18?

I have a photo or an ASC detachment with M-E Carbines and their P1888 bayonets but I am not sure I have seen a picture of .303 M-E rifles in service during the war.

Chris, I remembered this photo was posted on an interesting 'Identification Thread' which we contributed to back in 2013, but have only just managed to find it.!

It was posted by "Bushfighter" and is captioned as the British North Borneo Rifles during 1916. At the time I identified them as ME rifles with Sockets attached.?

Not sure if you are interested in Colonial service (which obviously doesn't count) or if you agree with the identification, but feel free to make of it what you will.

Cheers, S>S

[Lancashire Fusilier]

While we are considering anything and everyone, other than the Regular British Army. Here is another example of the Martini-Enfield Rifle's Colonial usage, a cute little Aussie Boy Scout, which should bring back happy memories for someone

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

With reference to post # 26, I would love to know what features of the rifles and bayonets shown in that photograph could in anyway whatsoever be positively identified, so that anyone, could possibly say " At the time I identified them as ME rifles with Sockets attached " ?

Based on the photo exactly as posted in #26, could it not as easily have been Martini-Henry Rifles with Sockets attached ?

If identification is being based just on their being long rifles with long pointy things attached, the Socket Bayonet for Martini-Henry Rifle was 25 inches long, and the Socket Bayonet for the Martini-Enfield Rifle was also 25 inches long.

The length of the Martini-Henry Rifle was 49 inches, and the length of the Martini-Enfield Rifle was also 49 inches long.

Regards,

LF

[trajan]

Was unable to find the photograph in the previous thread referred to in post no.26 so was unable to see what SS's arguments were. What intrigued me more than a little though was the 'North Borneo Rifles' - couldn't find anything about them!

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Was unable to find the photograph in the previous thread referred to in post no.26 so was unable to see what SS's arguments were. What intrigued me more than a little though was the 'North Borneo Rifles' - couldn't find anything about them!

Trajan,

According to the National Archives ( British ), at the outbreak of WW1, British North Borneo ( a British Protectorate ) was overseen by the British North Borneo Company, which had it's own defence force, a ' Constabulary '.

In 1915, the men of this Constabulary and all other British male subjects in British North Borneo, who could go on active service, were incorporated into the British North Borneo Volunteer Rifles.

It seems not much happened in British North Borneo during WW1, as the force was only mobilised 6 times during WW1, and never saw any combat.

Here is a photograph of the British North Borneo Company's Constabulary on parade.

Regards,

LF

[shippingsteel]

Another nice photo which may be of interest to some, depicting a Boer War contingent of the Western Australian Mounted Infantry. [Geraldton Historical Society]

The rifles shown are a mixture of Martini-Metford Mk.I and Martini-Enfield Mk.I all of which are fitted with Rigby nose-caps to attach the P1888 Sword Bayonet.

The discernible difference between the rifles in the photo is the positioning of the sling. All of these rifles were ordered from Britain and produced at RSAF Enfield.

The P1888 Sword bayonets which attach to these Martini-Enfield rifles are clearly visible in the photo. These mens service to Empire should never be taken lightly.

Cheers, S>S

[trajan]

Trajan,

According to the National Archives ( British ), at the outbreak of WW1, British North Borneo ( a British Protectorate ) was overseen by the British North Borneo Company, which had it's own defence force, a ' Constabulary '.

That was as far as I had got, and I had assumed they were a company militia of some kind! Thanks for filling in the rest!

[trajan]

Another nice photo which may be of interest to some, depicting a Boer War contingent of the Western Australian Mounted Infantry. [Geraldton Historical Society]

As I understand it from the archives, WA originally ordered 700 M-M Mark I from BSA on 12 04 1894, for 62 shillings and 9 pence each, but these were returned and converted and / or exchanged for a like number M-E's between 1898 and 1900, these being fitted to take the P.1888 (at an initial cost of 2s.71/4d), and so I assume with Rigby nose caps.

I have also seen a claim that WA was the only colonial recipient of Martini-Enfield rifles to fit the Rigby nose cap and so use the P.1888. Any comments on that SS?

Trajan

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Shipping Steel's supposed identification of the Martini-Metford Mk I and the Martini-Enfield Mk I rifles, has nothing whatsoever to do with his having any expertise in British rifle identification or it being that " The discernible difference between the rifles in the photo is the positioning of the sling ", but rather, the caption attached to that photograph in post #31, which he conveniently omitted to show, actually names the type of rifle held by each man in the photograph, so I guess that made identification that much easier for him.

As to the position of the rifle's sling, that is also detailed in the article from which that photograph was copied.

Here is that photograph's missing caption :-

" W.A. Mounted Infantry of the Boer War. There are two distinct groups of soldiers. One group is armed with W.A. Pattern Martini-Metfords Mark I (back row,L-R I, 4, 6; Front row, centre) the other with W.A. Pattern Martini-Enfields Mark I. (back row, L-R, 3,5,; front row 1,3.)

Each group of men wear distinctly different uniforms. It is thought the group armed with Martini-Enfields are members of the Geraldton Rifle Volunteers who are posing with men of a Contingent to the Boer War c.I900.

All men are armed with the Pattern 1888 bayonet. (photo courtesy of Geraldton Historical Society. Banye Library 29789P)

Also, for anyone who may have any interest in the Colonial forces during the Boer War, here also is the link to the article SS used :-

http://museum.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/THE%20MARTINI-ENFIELD%20RIFLE%20IN%20WESTERN%20AUSTRALIA%20Part%20II%20THE%20PROCUREMENT%20OF%20.303%20INCH%20CALIBRE%20MARTINI%20ARMS%20BY%20WESTERN%20AUSTRAL.pdf

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

I have also seen a claim that WA was the only colonial recipient of Martini-Enfield rifles to fit the Rigby nose cap and so use the P.1888. Any comments on that SS?

Trajan

Trajan,

What comment could SS give you, other than refer you back to the article from which he quoted " verbatim " ( see my link to that article ).

Regards,

LF

[trajan]

Trajan,

What comment could SS give you, other than refer you back to the article from which he quoted " verbatim " ( see my link to that article ).

Regards,

LF

That figures.... And I see what you mean about the photograph, apparently downloaded without proper attribution from p.301 of that article? It is credited there to: (photo courtesy of Geraldton Historical Society. BanyeLibrary 29789P); but in reality when reproduced it should also be credited to the author of the article, especially as that person made the identifications...

Incidentally, I had Part 1 of that article, found some time ago through looking into P.1888's, but never found (or looked for) Part 2, as this is not really an area of great interest to me. I really must get my files in order! Or, better still, limit my interest to a much narrower range of bayonets rather than having such a mish-mash that includes everything from Australia to the UK and the scattered notes to go with them!

Thanks