13mm TuF Tank und Flieger round

[ServiceRumDiluted]

Having just obtained a 7.18 dated cartridge from an antique shop for the princely sum of £4 my research into the item throws up a question for me. It is described as a Tank and Aircraft round, the anti tank function is well described in other threads, but as an anti-aircraft round?

It seems the Germans were working on an MG to take this ammunition due in service in 1919, and I presume this was intended to have some AA function. Possibly even to be carried by aircraft.

Can anyone shed any light on the intended or actual AA use of this round? The item I have is only a cartridge, no projectile, propellant or primer so no need for debate on AP projectiles, also well covered elsewhere!

Thanks.

[SiegeGunner]

It is described as a Tank and Aircraft round, the anti tank function is well described in other threads, but as an anti-aircraft round?

Where is it so described, SRD? Assuming this is the round used with the T-Gewehr anti-tank rifle, it would seem ideal for a big MG or small automatic cannon for all sorts of uses, including Flak and installation on a suitable aircraft platform for use in ground attack and against large bombers. Much the same as the .50 cal round used in similar applications later, if not also during the GW.

[ServiceRumDiluted]

Sorry SG, I was a little unclear, it is indeed a T Gewehr cartridge and the source of the 'Flier' reference is good old Wikipedia.

Given that the Mauser rifle for this round is so patently wrong for AA use I'm just intrigued as to what was intended and what was in development.

[bierast]

This round was originally devised in 1917 for the TuF ('Tank und Flieger') machine-gun, which was essentially a scaled-up MG08. As the name indicates, it was intended to serve in both the AA and AT roles. Technical problems with this weapon were not overcome in time for mass production before the war ended.

As I understand it, the Mauser T-Gewehr was introduced as a stop-gap while the problems with the heavy machine-gun were ironed out.

There is a rare photo of the TuF machine-gun near the bottom of this webpage:

http://www.cruffler.com/Features/FEB-02/historic-february02.html

[ServiceRumDiluted]

Thanks for the link Andi, interesting article. The thought of those being deployed en masse...

[Chasemuseum]

The Germans were also working on a 20mm AA MG.

[Cnock]

The 20 mm Becker round was used in the AA role and in planes in 1918.

regards,

Cnock

[Cnock]

the Becker round

Cnock

[bierast]

The 2cm Becker semi-automatic cannon was also tried (mounted on an MG tripod, which had to be weighed down with sandbags) as a Tankabwehrkanone. However it was found to be insufficiently effective against armoured targets, and saw little use. It was considered and then rejected as part of the armament of the A7V tank for the same reason.

http://www.landships.info/landships/artillery_articles.html?load=/landships/artillery_articles/TAK_Becker.html

[Khaki]

I didn't know the Germans used the word 'Tank'

khaki