Daveleic Posted 24 July , 2015 Share Posted 24 July , 2015 Were there Mark V* Composite tanks? I have a Tank Corps 8th Bn battle history sheet of 29/9/1918 which seems to imply that a tank, 9787, was a composite (hermaphrodite). The battle sheet is a scan, not a transcript, so certainly not a transcription error. 9787 was a Mark V* according to the landships website lists. The battle sheet seems to read (paraphrased a little) "unable to bring left 6pdr to bear... on Farm, right M.G.'s attacked enemy in trenches". (Definitely reads M.G.'s plural). This seems to imply two machine guns on right. Surely a male tank would have had one 6pdr and one Hotchkiss MG in both left and right sponson and a female, 2 MG's on left, 2 on right? (Apologies if I've posted this in the wrong section). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 24 July , 2015 Share Posted 24 July , 2015 Were there Mark V* Composite tanks? I have a Tank Corps 8th Bn battle history sheet of 29/9/1918 which seems to imply that a tank, 9787, was a composite (hermaphrodite). The battle sheet is a scan, not a transcript, so certainly not a transcription error. 9787 was a Mark V* according to the landships website lists. The battle sheet seems to read (paraphrased a little) "unable to bring left 6pdr to bear... on Farm, right M.G.'s attacked enemy in trenches". (Definitely reads M.G.'s plural). This seems to imply two machine guns on right. Surely a male tank would have had one 6pdr and one Hotchkiss MG in both left and right sponson and a female, 2 MG's on left, 2 on right? (Apologies if I've posted this in the wrong section). Mark V Hermaphrodite or Composite Tanks ( a Male Sponson on one side and a Female Sponson on the other ) are known to have existed and were photographed, however, their use seems to have been confined to the British occupation forces in Germany following the Armistice. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 24 July , 2015 Share Posted 24 July , 2015 Might it have been a composite company that is described? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveleic Posted 24 July , 2015 Author Share Posted 24 July , 2015 Thanks for your replies. Sorry, I perhaps didn't make my piece very clear. The crew was H47 and is not described as composite, though some others in the battle sheets from this day were composite crews. I believe the tank to have been a Mark V* (star), i.e. one of the 'stretched' types, based on the listing given on the Landships.google website. My query as to whether it had different armament in lt and rt sponsons, is based simply on the fact that the battle sheet refers to two MG's on right and a 6pdr on left. I knew there were Mark V composites, but haven't seen references to composite Mark V*. regards Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 25 July , 2015 Share Posted 25 July , 2015 Dave I can confirm that 9787 was a Mark V* Composite (Hermaphrodite). It isn't true that use of Composites was restricted to the post war years. Both Mark V and V* Female tanks were converted to Composites from May 1917 onwards as a panic reaction to the appearance of the A7V on the battlefield. 14th Battalion, when it arrived in France, was equipped only with Males and Composites - it had no Female tanks. Post war, Males were converted to Composites, though the reason for this is less clear. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 25 July , 2015 Share Posted 25 July , 2015 Were there Mark V* Composite tanks? I have a Tank Corps 8th Bn battle history sheet of 29/9/1918 which seems to imply that a tank, 9787, was a composite (hermaphrodite). The battle sheet is a scan, not a transcript, so certainly not a transcription error. 9787 was a Mark V* according to the landships website lists. The battle sheet seems to read (paraphrased a little) "unable to bring left 6pdr to bear... on Farm, right M.G.'s attacked enemy in trenches". (Definitely reads M.G.'s plural). This seems to imply two machine guns on right. Surely a male tank would have had one 6pdr and one Hotchkiss MG in both left and right sponson and a female, 2 MG's on left, 2 on right? Dave, Here is an extremely interesting pair of photographs taken from both sides of the same ditched Mark V Tank on the Western Front at the beginning of October 1918, which clearly shows this Mark V to be a Hermaphrodite ( Composite ) Tank. These photographs, clearly show the Male Sponson on one side, and the Female Sponson on the other side. These are the only photographs I have seen so far, of a Mark V Hermaphrodite Tank in action on the Western Front during WW1. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveleic Posted 26 July , 2015 Author Share Posted 26 July , 2015 Thanks Gwyn and LF. I assume that your 1917 was a 'slip of the computer finger', Gwyn. Thanks for the pics, LF, though I think they show a Mark V, not a Mark V star, which looks like this (just a photo I found on Google image search), serial number close to 9787's. http://www.tanks.net/images/stories/mark-v-star-british-tank-world-war-one.jpg Quite some target! In fact, I have now found a reference to Mark V* composites on the landships website, with a link to a film. Can't watch it on my dysfunctional iPad. The guns of the five C Company 8Bn tanks which went into action near Cabaret Wood Farm on 29/9/18 were used as follows: Tank 9787 700 rounds SAA Tank 9385 800 rounds SAA Tank B53 30 6pdr shells, 50 rounds SAA Tank 9199 40 6pdr shells, 60 rounds SAA Tank 9881 tank hit before any shots fired Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 26 July , 2015 Share Posted 26 July , 2015 Oops! Yes, 1918 not 1917. Sorry for rewriting history... Having a photo of each side of a tank is obviously a clear-cut way to find a Composite, but there are others. These include serial numbers that don't match one sponson, and Battle History Sheets that show a tank firing 6 pdr ammunition when its serial number is that of a Female. Sometimes, the records actually say that the tank's a Composite. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveleic Posted 26 July , 2015 Author Share Posted 26 July , 2015 Thanks Gwyn. Just one thought: since the Composite was a response to the threat of the A7V, that was fine as long as the Boche always had the courtesy to appear from the correct (i.e. 6pdr) side, presumably! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveleic Posted 27 July , 2015 Author Share Posted 27 July , 2015 It has just occurred to me that both 9787 Mark V* (star) Composite and the Composite in the photo posted above by Lancashire Fusilier had the 6pdr mounted in the left sponon. I wonder whether any Composites were "right-handed" as it were? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 27 July , 2015 Share Posted 27 July , 2015 Thanks Gwyn. Just one thought: since the Composite was a response to the threat of the A7V, that was fine as long as the Boche always had the courtesy to appear from the correct (i.e. 6pdr) side, presumably! Dave Wasn't a problem given A7Vs were so heavily outnumbered. An A7V would rout five Females, but would be lost against five Composites. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidearm Posted 27 July , 2015 Share Posted 27 July , 2015 It has just occurred to me that both 9787 Mark V* (star) Composite and the Composite in the photo posted above by Lancashire Fusilier had the 6pdr mounted in the left sponon. I wonder whether any Composites were "right-handed" as it were? Yes is the short answer. In my research papers I refer to RH and LH Composites, an RH Composite being one with the Male sponson on the right etc. But there was no official distinction - they're just called Composites. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveleic Posted 28 July , 2015 Author Share Posted 28 July , 2015 Gwyn, Thanks for clarifying both points, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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