trajan Posted 16 July , 2015 Share Posted 16 July , 2015 I am slowly working my way through Kraus and Mueller's The German Colonial Troops, which has lots of nice rifle shots (no pun intended!) and bayonets also, and as the old thread on this topic was locked (see: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=181664),then this is a way of putting this material forward while resurrecting SS's original thread from oblivion! For starters, one photograph, p.133, shows a mixed group of three: the German NCO has the Gew.98; one askari has the M.71 Jaegerbuesche; the second has an SMLE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 16 July , 2015 Share Posted 16 July , 2015 The German led Askaris were short of weapons and equipment as their supplies were cut off - various actions led to a good supply of captured British rifles and ammunition which were pressed into service. - their original issue would have been the Gew 71. The German colonial units would have had the Gew 98 hence the mix in your photo.- SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman Posted 16 July , 2015 Share Posted 16 July , 2015 Some of the German troops in East Africa were equipped with rifles salvaged from the sunken light cruiser SMS KONIGSBERG which was scuttled in the Rufiji river after being trapped there by British forces Took siege of 10 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 17 July , 2015 Author Share Posted 17 July , 2015 It looks as if Kraus and Mueller's book (OPost) does not have much detail on weaponry, but I'll search on. Freidag notes (p.341) for Ostafrika Mannschaften only that each man had a kS 98 and a Kar.98. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 17 July , 2015 Author Share Posted 17 July , 2015 For reference purposes, here is a scan of p.133 from Kraus and Mueller's The German Colonial Troops, showing the war-time mix of arms referred to in the OP - the German with the Gew.98; an askari with an M.71 Jaegerbuesche; another with an SMLE! Am I correct in identifying the P.1907 rifle as a volley-shot version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 17 July , 2015 Share Posted 17 July , 2015 Am I correct in identifying the P.1907 rifle as a volley-shot version? P1907 (??) volley-shot (???) The Short, Magazine Lee-Enfield Rifle shown in the picture has long range volley sights if that is what you are asking - you can see the dial/pointer (1) between the front sling swivel and the rear sight protector and the peep folded down along along the top of the receiver over the safety (2) As to the specific model; I think, based on this it is a MkIII (introduced 1907), the charger bridge may be visible in the box (3) but I am not 100% sure. The other indicator would be straight ears on the foresight protector but I cannot discern those either on this image. However the rear sight protectors are not part of the handguard so that is diagnostic of a MkIII. barring odd conversions (some Irish rifles are MkI*** but have MkIII handguards) Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 18 July , 2015 Author Share Posted 18 July , 2015 P1907 (??) volley-shot (???) Yes, I know, time to stand in a corner and then write out 1,000 times that there is no such thing as a .... Suitably chastised as I am, many thanks for confirming that I have at least learnt one thing, that the fiddly bit on the left side was for (long range) volley shots - and many more thanks for the proper identification of the rifle and the introduction as to what to look for in the future... Now can I come out of the corner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 18 July , 2015 Share Posted 18 July , 2015 Actually I was thinking about this. I think I saw the SMLE referred to as "Model 1907" somewhere else too recently (and it may have been a German publication) I wondered if that is where your reference came from? Weren't you providing translations of a German booklet of "captured" small arms at some point recently? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 18 July , 2015 Author Share Posted 18 July , 2015 I probably had the German nomenclature in mind, but checking the caption of this one, it's English language, and reads '... a captured British Short Magazine Lee-Enfield rifle', and so, as they say over your side of the pond, 'my bad'... The book itself does have quite a few photographs, mainly of Askari armed or exercising with the M.71 Jaegerbuesche although one shows Askari in Ostafrika with what look like to be the Kar.98aZ, and IIRC, there are also photographs of German Schutztruppen with the Kar.88. Also some interesting studio shots of German Shutztruppen, one of a chappie with a M.71 and a 71/84 bayonet - but the scabbard is perched in the frog, with the frog stud haning over the lip, and so this is a case (I would think) of posing with a studio prop rather than an actual service weapon. Otherwise, Gew.98 abound, but seemingly only with Germans not Askaris. Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 21 July , 2015 Author Share Posted 21 July , 2015 Just stumbled on this site: http://s400910952.websitehome.co.uk/germancolonialuniforms/militaria/rifles.htm It has a whole section devoted to what was used and where by the German colonial forces, and states with regard to the SMLE that: "These rifles were captured and re-used in large quantities by the Schutztruppe of German East Africa throughout the First World War. 455 were captured at the Battle of Tanga in November 1914 alone." They also have a photograph of an Askari with one, but probably not enough detail for forensic analysis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 21 July , 2015 Share Posted 21 July , 2015 Thanks Julian, Very interesting site. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now