Cameron Highlanders in Russia?

[gordon92]

I recently found this image that was simply captioned "Cameron Highlanders in Russia 1919."

I am unable to pinpoint any Cameron Highlanders battalion serving in Russia during/after the Great War.

Are there any Cameron enthusiasts out there who might have better information on this point? Pending any further input on this matter, I am inclined to think that this cation is mistaken.

[4thGordons]

1st battalion were in South Russia (Batum) Dec 31 1918-3 June 1919 according to Gould. "Locations of British Cavalry, Infantry and Machine-gun units 1914-24 (p36)

Chris

[gordon92]

1st battalion were in South Russia (Batum) Dec 31 1918-3 June 1919 according to Gould. "Locations of British Cavalry, Infantry and Machine-gun units 1914-24 (p36)

Chris

Many thanks, Chris. I was skeptical about this photo, but you have clarified it for me as legitimate.

Mike

[kenmorrison]

Three men of the 2nd Battalion Cameron Highlanders are remembered in the Batumi British Military Cemetery in Georgia. All died in 1919.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx?cpage=1

CWGC's cemetery notes include:

"On the 27th December 1918, troops of the 27th Division, from Macedonia, occupied Batum, and a British garrison remained in the town until July 1920."

The 2nd Camerons were part of 81st Infantry Brigade of the Division.

Ken

[gordon92]

Three men of the 2nd Battalion Cameron Highlanders are remembered in the Batumi British Military Cemetery in Georgia. All died in 1919.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx?cpage=1

CWGC's cemetery notes include:

"On the 27th December 1918, troops of the 27th Division, from Macedonia, occupied Batum, and a British garrison remained in the town until July 1920."

The 2nd Camerons were part of 81st Infantry Brigade of the Division.

Ken

The information is much appreciated, Ken. I can now see that the 27th Division was in the Black Sea area in 1919: http://www.1914-1918.net/27div.htm

[kenmorrison]

Mike and Chris

Just to round this off - the 1st Battalion of the Cameron Highlanders were posted to India at the end of the war.

This young Wigtownshire man died there:

Adam Ferries – age 19 – Private (33575) 1st Battalion, Cameron Highlanders.

Born 1900 in Whithorn, Wigtownshire.

Son of Peter and Agnes (Martin) Ferries of Chapelheron Farm, Whithorn.

Died on Active Service – 20 December 1919.

Commonwealth War Grave – Rawalpindi War Cemetery, Pakistan.

[gordon92]

Mike and Chris

Just to round this off - the 1st Battalion of the Cameron Highlanders were posted to India at the end of the war.

This young Wigtownshire man died there:

Adam Ferries – age 19 – Private (33575) 1st Battalion, Cameron Highlanders.

Born 1900 in Whithorn, Wigtownshire.

Son of Peter and Agnes (Martin) Ferries of Chapelheron Farm, Whithorn.

Died on Active Service – 20 December 1919.

Commonwealth War Grave – Rawalpindi War Cemetery, Pakistan.

Thanks, Ken.

[wrightdw]

More than likely these men served with 1st Bn., Oxs and Bucks, 1st (Grogan's) Bde, North Russia Relief Force at Archangel, June-October 1919. There were so many Scots in the Bn that they nicknamed themselves the "Oxs and Jocks".

1st Bde, NRRF was a composite Regular Brigade (2nd Bde was all volunteer specifically enlisted to serve in North Russia) and made up to strength with drafts from other regiments, more than 30 regiments were represented in 1st OBLI by the time they sailed for Russia.

[gordon92]

More than likely these men served with 1st Bn., Oxs and Bucks, 1st (Grogan's) Bde, North Russia Relief Force at Archangel, June-October 1919. There were so many Scots in the Bn that they nicknamed themselves the "Oxs and Jocks".

1st Bde, NRRF was a composite Regular Brigade (2nd Bde was all volunteer specifically enlisted to serve in North Russia) and made up to strength with drafts from other regiments, more than 30 regiments were represented in 1st OBLI by the time they sailed for Russia.

Interesting. Would the Highland Scots have retained their Highland dress even in the Oxs and Bucks?

[wrightdw]

Yes, these men were drafts from their regiments serving on "attachment" to 1st OBLI (and 2nd Hampshire's), they retained their regimental dress, badges, headress, traditions etc.

Wether by accident or design, a number of Scottish regiments were drafted into 1st OBLI and Irish regiments to 2nd Hampshire's although 40 Royal Scots Fusiliers OR's served on attachment to 2nd Hampshire's in North Russia June - October 1919.

Interestingly there was one Royal Scots soldier attd. 1st OBLI who was taken prisoner by the Bolsheviks (later Soviets) in June 1919 and released a couple of weeks later to walk back to British lines and spread dissent amongst the rank and file who had not volunteered for Russia despite British Government statements to the public to the contrary and were not keen on dying in a forgotten corner of the Russian interior nearly a year after the war had ended. This man remains commemorated by the CWGC as a fatal casualty with a date of death of the day of the action in which he went missing although he did not die in Russia and returned to the UK. There are a number of cases of the CWGC not commemorating soldiers whom died, I wonder how many cases there are of soldiers commemorated as having died, who survived?

Another soldier from KOSB attd. 1st OBLI was Killed in Action in September 1919.

Given your interest you may be interested to know that 2/10th Royal Scots and 2nd Highland Light Infantry served as units at Archangel, North Russia 1918-19, many other Scottish regiments were represented in North Russia although on attachments to other units as the Cameron's in the photo in your original post.

2/10th lost 5 officers and 82 OR's during their time in North Russia from September 1918-June 1919, light casualties compared to the Western Front although the nature of the warfare was quite different, rather than massed infantry, artillery and machine guns in a small area, the war in North Russia was one of manoeuvre, small numbers of troops trekking through dense forests and swamp to attack enemy villages and blockhouses.

The last British fatal casualties in North Russia were 11 men of 2nd HLI, killed in action 23rd September 1919 during a failed raid on a Red Finnish (Finns sympathetic to the Soviets) hideout.

The last soldier to die in North Russia was 19 year old Pte. Abraham Gotts, 2nd HLI, who died of wounds sustained in the failed raid on 27th September 1919.

[Tom Lang]

I don't wish to distract from this thread, but the 2nd Bn Highland Light Infantry served in North Russia.

From their War Diary:

They embarked from Tilbury Docks on the S.S. WALLOCHRA on 16 Aug, 1919, and disembarked on 26 Aug, 1919, at Archangel on the White Sea.

They left Murmansk on 6 Oct, 1919, on H.M.T. ULUA, and arrived at Meadowside Quay, Glasgow on 11 Oct, 1919.

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

[gordon92]

Yes, these men were drafts from their regiments serving on "attachment" to 1st OBLI (and 2nd Hampshire's), they retained their regimental dress, badges, headress, traditions etc.

Wether by accident or design, a number of Scottish regiments were drafted into 1st OBLI and Irish regiments to 2nd Hampshire's although 40 Royal Scots Fusiliers OR's served on attachment to 2nd Hampshire's in North Russia June - October 1919.

Interestingly there was one Royal Scots soldier attd. 1st OBLI who was taken prisoner by the Bolsheviks (later Soviets) in June 1919 and released a couple of weeks later to walk back to British lines and spread dissent amongst the rank and file who had not volunteered for Russia despite British Government statements to the public to the contrary and were not keen on dying in a forgotten corner of the Russian interior nearly a year after the war had ended. This man remains commemorated by the CWGC as a fatal casualty with a date of death of the day of the action in which he went missing although he did not die in Russia and returned to the UK. There are a number of cases of the CWGC not commemorating soldiers whom died, I wonder how many cases there are of soldiers commemorated as having died, who survived?

Another soldier from KOSB attd. 1st OBLI was Killed in Action in September 1919.

Given your interest you may be interested to know that 2/10th Royal Scots and 2nd Highland Light Infantry served as units at Archangel, North Russia 1918-19, many other Scottish regiments were represented in North Russia although on attachments to other units as the Cameron's in the photo in your original post.

2/10th lost 5 officers and 82 OR's during their time in North Russia from September 1918-June 1919, light casualties compared to the Western Front although the nature of the warfare was quite different, rather than massed infantry, artillery and machine guns in a small area, the war in North Russia was one of manoeuvre, small numbers of troops trekking through dense forests and swamp to attack enemy villages and blockhouses.

The last British fatal casualties in North Russia were 11 men of 2nd HLI, killed in action 23rd September 1919 during a failed raid on a Red Finnish (Finns sympathetic to the Soviets) hideout.

The last soldier to die in North Russia was 19 year old Pte. Abraham Gotts, 2nd HLI, who died of wounds sustained in the failed raid on 27th September 1919.

I don't wish to distract from this thread, but the 2nd Bn Highland Light Infantry served in North Russia.

From their War Diary:

They embarked from Tilbury Docks on the S.S. WALLOCHRA on 16 Aug, 1919, and disembarked on 26 Aug, 1919, at Archangel on the White Sea.

They left Murmansk on 6 Oct, 1919, on H.M.T. ULUA, and arrived at Meadowside Quay, Glasgow on 11 Oct, 1919.

Kindest Regards,

Tom.

Fascinating history details of which I had been unaware. Thank you both for offering this information.

[Guest Ian Gotts]

On 7/5/2015 at 14:52, wrightdw said:

Yes, these men were drafts from their regiments serving on "attachment" to 1st OBLI (and 2nd Hampshire's), they retained their regimental dress, badges, headress, traditions etc.

Wether by accident or design, a number of Scottish regiments were drafted into 1st OBLI and Irish regiments to 2nd Hampshire's although 40 Royal Scots Fusiliers OR's served on attachment to 2nd Hampshire's in North Russia June - October 1919.

Interestingly there was one Royal Scots soldier attd. 1st OBLI who was taken prisoner by the Bolsheviks (later Soviets) in June 1919 and released a couple of weeks later to walk back to British lines and spread dissent amongst the rank and file who had not volunteered for Russia despite British Government statements to the public to the contrary and were not keen on dying in a forgotten corner of the Russian interior nearly a year after the war had ended. This man remains commemorated by the CWGC as a fatal casualty with a date of death of the day of the action in which he went missing although he did not die in Russia and returned to the UK. There are a number of cases of the CWGC not commemorating soldiers whom died, I wonder how many cases there are of soldiers commemorated as having died, who survived?

Another soldier from KOSB attd. 1st OBLI was Killed in Action in September 1919.

Given your interest you may be interested to know that 2/10th Royal Scots and 2nd Highland Light Infantry served as units at Archangel, North Russia 1918-19, many other Scottish regiments were represented in North Russia although on attachments to other units as the Cameron's in the photo in your original post.

2/10th lost 5 officers and 82 OR's during their time in North Russia from September 1918-June 1919, light casualties compared to the Western Front although the nature of the warfare was quite different, rather than massed infantry, artillery and machine guns in a small area, the war in North Russia was one of manoeuvre, small numbers of troops trekking through dense forests and swamp to attack enemy villages and blockhouses.

The last British fatal casualties in North Russia were 11 men of 2nd HLI, killed in action 23rd September 1919 during a failed raid on a Red Finnish (Finns sympathetic to the Soviets) hideout.

The last soldier to die in North Russia was 19 year old Pte. Abraham Gotts, 2nd HLI, who died of wounds sustained in the failed raid on 27th September 1919.

Hi, I am gradually documenting all the GOTTS soldiers in WW1 as part of my One-name Study. http://www.gotts.org.uk/world_war_1_gotts.html

Can I ask how you know Abraham Gotts was the last man to die? I tried to find the battalion diaries in TNA but failed. I assume that is where you found the information. I know his family, from North Ormesby near Middlesbrough, though I cannot find the date he enlisted. He was born in 1899, so would 18 in 1917 and was presumably conscripted. But why the HLI? Was there an assignment done on enlisting to the battalions needing soldiers, though I thought enlisting was often more local though there is no evidence of an earlier regiment.

Thanks