DoughboyWWI Posted 26 May , 2015 Share Posted 26 May , 2015 Hello, guys. A few days ago, I purchased this nice Gewehr 88(/05?) for $40.00 at a flea market. I noticed that there are quite a bit of markings, and they are decently visible. I've done some searching on the internet, but I haven't found any conclusive information regarding this rifle. If anyone can tell me anything else about it, that'd be great! ~Thanks in advance, Garrett LINK TO IMAGES: http://imgur.com/a/1W54c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 26 May , 2015 Share Posted 26 May , 2015 Hi Garrett - welcome to the forum Well from what I can see from the images you show is that the rifle is a mix-up of parts. The two digit numbers on the various components are (should be) the last two digits of the serial number as none of yours match up that suggests the rifle is made up of lots of parts. I did not see a pic. of the main receiver marking showing where it was made and the date -- this would be useful. I suspect it may have a crescent moon stamped there? The other (non numeric) marks are inspection stamps from the manufacturing/inspection process. So can you post a pic of the main manufacturer marks? Regardless for $40 you can't really go wrong can you! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoughboyWWI Posted 27 May , 2015 Author Share Posted 27 May , 2015 Hi Garrett - welcome to the forum Well from what I can see from the images you show is that the rifle is a mix-up of parts. The two digit numbers on the various components are (should be) the last two digits of the serial number as none of yours match up that suggests the rifle is made up of lots of parts. I did not see a pic. of the main receiver marking showing where it was made and the date -- this would be useful. I suspect it may have a crescent moon stamped there? The other (non numeric) marks are inspection stamps from the manufacturing/inspection process. So can you post a pic of the main manufacturer marks? Regardless for $40 you can't really go wrong can you! Chris Yeah, I was surprised with the price, too. And here is the other photographs: http://m.imgur.com/a/y73CI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 27 May , 2015 Share Posted 27 May , 2015 OK so it is an 1890 made Spandau rifle. It has been converted for the S-patrone (spitzer bullet) the S stamp. The marking on the side is a unit mark - it is a bit tough to read on the picture is it: 4.G.G.R.9.180 ? Someone should be able to tell you what that means if correct: - 180 is the weapon number and I would guess 4 G.G.R is the 4th Grenadier Guards Regiment so I think (others will correct me) that this means it reads 4 Grenadier Guards Regiment, 9th Company, 180th weapon. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 27 May , 2015 Share Posted 27 May , 2015 ... The marking on the side is a unit mark - it is a bit tough to read on the picture is it: 4.G.G.R.9.180 ? Someone should be able to tell you what that means if correct: - 180 is the weapon number and I would guess 4 G.G.R is the 4th Grenadier Guards Regiment so I think (others will correct me) that this means it reads 4 Grenadier Guards Regiment, 9th Company, 180th weapon. Chris As I understand the regulations, and what I do know from bayonet markings, the Garde-Grenadier-Regiment normally used the unit-mark "G.G." with no "R", and "G.G.R" would technically mean "Garde-Grenadier-Regiment Rekrutendepot"... However, although they may have had 1 or even 2 recruiting depots they would not have had as many as 9! So, an anomalous marking... For an abbreviated history of the regiment see: http://genwiki.genealogy.net/G_Gren.R_4 Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 27 May , 2015 Share Posted 27 May , 2015 I believe there was a change in marking patterns - at least according to THIS SITE/LIST which appears to imply GGR was pre 1909 - GG was post 1909 so as the rifle is dated to 1890 it would fall into the earlier form. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the site although it sites Walter's 1976 book on German Bayonets as its source (see bottom of page) Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 27 May , 2015 Share Posted 27 May , 2015 I believe there was a change in marking patterns - at least according to THIS SITE/LIST which appears to imply GGR was pre 1909 - GG was post 1909 so as the rifle is dated to 1890 it would fall into the earlier form. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the site although it sites Walter's 1976 book on German Bayonets as its source (see bottom of page) Chris Chris, Have not checked that site yet but you are quite right! I normally do my GWF in the office and find that the books I want are at home. This time I did GWF at home and found that the books and notes I wanted were in my office... And according to Vorschrift uber das Stempeln der Handwaffen of 1890, G.G.R. is correct for a Garde-Grenadier-Regiment, but I have a reference in a German book stating that the G.G.R. formula was dropped in 1893. That is of no consequence here, but note that if this had been a 1889 rifle, then the Vorschrift uber das Stempeln der Handwaffen of 1877 would apply, in which case G.G.R. would be Garde-Grenadier-Landwehr-Regiment... These changing formulae do create problems in some cases and knowing the date of the weapon is crucial in that regard. Now, let's see what that link says... Julian EDIT: Nice little site, and I see that he got this listing from Walter's book on German Bayonets. Note, however, as in my penultimate line above - the date of the weapon is crucial to understanding the unit-marking formula. And on which note I have just re-checked my copy of the 1877 regulations instead of relying on the German reference work I normally use and I see that the German source is incorrect! On p.53 of the 1877 regulations it gives as an example of the correct marking for "3.Garde-Grenadier=Regiment u.s.w ...3.G.G.R.10.104". Hmmm, one more standard text on the German army found to be wanting... So, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoughboyWWI Posted 27 May , 2015 Author Share Posted 27 May , 2015 Thank you all for your input! It is greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 27 May , 2015 Share Posted 27 May , 2015 Hi Garrett, Outstanding purchase, I have always had a soft spot for the G88, because of the heaps of variations I suppose, if you haven't got one already you need to get a copy of the Scarlata book on the Gew 88. I refer to it frequently and it has excellent photographs of the rifles, variations, bayonets, parts, and in use. Non matching parts is nothing unusual in Gew 88's considering the amount of upgrades that took place the average rifle must have been stripped down many times, perhaps even more than the smle. regards khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 28 May , 2015 Share Posted 28 May , 2015 ... the Scarlata book on the Gew 88. I refer to it frequently and it has excellent photographs of the rifles, variations, bayonets, parts, and in use. That's a new one on me - thanks! I'll see if I can find a copy, as I am only too well aware that my knowledge bank on German rifles is somewhat empty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 28 May , 2015 Share Posted 28 May , 2015 Hello Julian, Glad to be of help, hope you can get a copy, let me know how you get on, regards khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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